King Uzziah starts out his career doing “what was right in the eyes of the Lord”. However, over time he falls out of step with God. Scripture records how his submissive humility shifts into un-submissive pride. We read in 2 Chronicles 26: “He sought God during the days of Zechariah, who instructed him in the fear of the Lord. As long as he sought the Lord, God gave him success….” 26: 5, 6Can you see here the marks of godly submission? Uzziah submits to Zechariah who himself is submissive - to divine authority. Zechariah teaches Uzziah to fear God - in other words, submit to God as the ultimate authority to whom he is accountable. Uzziah humbly receives this teaching. He can see his need for God. As long as he seeks God, God blesses him. But over time this all changes - for the worse. We read the words, “He had become very powerful”. A few verses later we read, “But after Uzziah became powerful, his pride led to his downfall.” :16 What follows is predictable. Uzziah loses his sense of boundaries. He has no brakes anymore, and so he oversteps his authority. He goes into the temple to burn incense. In other words, he takes over the priest’s job! Uzziah is now operating with absolute power. He exemplifies the saying: “POWER TENDS TO CORRUPT: AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.” In Uzziah we can see how power and submissiveness are bound together. After Uzziah acquires power he becomes un-submissive. He sees himself as the ultimate authority. The temple priest, Azariah along with 80 other priests can see his problem, and they are deeply concerned. They courageously warn him, saying, “It is not right for you, Uzziah, to burn incense to the Lord. That is for the priests.” 26:18 But Uzziah has forgotten the lessons he learned from Zechariah early in his career. He stops fearing God; and he stops being submissive. If Uzziah had any submissive streak left in him, he would have listened to the priests, and spared a tragedy. But since he believes he’s right, he gets angry with them. They are the trouble makers – all 81 of them! At this point God steps in and strikes him with leprosy. That is the only way to bring him down and arrest the unstoppable path of corruption. Here, it would seem that God’s judgment is really an act of mercy.
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John Cage was a modern American composer who was controversial for his weird ideas. He liked exploring the sounds made by non-musical objects and chance procedures. In that way he makes an ideal object lesson for this thread topic. John Cage was not particularly submissive to the established ways of music. He admitted he did not like piano as a child, and he had no use for harmony lessons. He said, “I certainly had no feeling for harmony”. And that is obvious! In the field of musical composition John Cage was his own authority. One of his most famous compositions is a piano solo called 4’33”. An acclaimed pianist steps on the stage, sits at the concert grand piano and closes the lid. Then he remains silent for 4 minutes and 33 seconds. This composition has been arranged for a large orchestra – and you can watch it on You Tube. The conductor begins the work and then all the musicians sit in silence. You are supposed to focus on the random sounds (which is mostly the audience breaking out in coughing between movements). At the end there is a rousing applause. Here’s the link – in case you want to waste your time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E(actually it's an impressive performance! Over 2 million have watched this.)Then there is John Cage’s symphony for twelve radios – where the performers run around on the stage to twist knobs and dials according to the score. The audience gets to listen to random radio sounds – crackles, hisses and all. It may be worth checking out John Cage’s works on YouTube – and see just how pointless and unfocused “free” creativity can become when there is no submission to any basic fundamental standards. It’s like a kite broken free from the string. It doesn’t soar freely at all! What if other disciplines functioned that way – health care …. engineering ….. law …… the Christian calling? On a more orderly note, I include music that truly soars: the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel’s Messiah - which is performed in hundreds of places around the world every Christmas. Here’s two examples: Choir of King’s College, Cambridge UK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TUWU_yg4s Andre Rieu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU&feature=related (quite a lively version) Diane
So basically what you have proven with the last two examples is that there is no "high COST of Christian submission" but rather that there is a "high benefit of Christian submission". Whatever a Christian may lose for Christ's sake has no inherent eternal value so how can it have a high cost? What he can and ought to lose though are things with negative eternal value, therefore if renamed from COST to BENEFIT the thread would be more accurately named. OJETA Remember Jesus paid it all, so there is no more paying to be done, just receiving.
So basically what you have proven with the last two examples is that there is no "high COST of Christian submission" but rather that there is a "high benefit of Christian submission".
DianeNice story, but it proves that man wants to work for what he has, and cannot readily accept a free gift.It comes down to this. There is no cost for Christian submission, only a benefit. Either It has already ALL been paid on my behalf, or I must add some of my own payment (in the form of a cost) to what Christ has done. Note: those who were told to count the cost were not told that they should expect to find any cost. The only people who find COST are those who place higher value in what they may so-called lose, than they do in Christ whom they miss out on gaining. Paul counts EVERYTHING he “lost” as dung, which has no worth, and therefore is no cost. Had he placed value in what he had lost, he surely would not have counted it as dung. So the Christian when he counts the cost, finds out that there is no cost of any kind, only a benefit; but when the wannabe Christian counts the “cost” he considers it as a heavy burden that he must bear or some kind of contribution to his own salvation, and therefore to him it is a cost, not a benefit.There is no cost of Christian submission, only a benefit.OJ
therefore if renamed from COST to BENEFIT the thread would be more accurately named.
Do not the above verses teach that there is a cost to be a disciple of Christ. Dietrich Bonhoffer wrote a book which has become a classic. The title of the book is"The Cost of Discipleship". Bonhoffer is quoted as saying when Christ bids a man to come to him, he bids him to come and die. That implies cost to me. The cost of my life.Blaine Scogin
I am not sure if OJ is indulging in semantics in the line of reasoning of " no cost." Seems like a theological argument rather than a practical Christianity argument. I believe when the Scripture say the following verse that there can be no doubt as to what it means practically and daily..............And He said to all, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. For whoever will save his life shall lose it, but whoever will lose his life for My sake, he shall save it. For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world and loses himself, or is cast away? (Luk 9:23-25)The cross if the symbol of the greatest sufferings known to man. Each of us has a cross that is uniquely fitted for us, and we are not commanded to pick it up, it is a choice, and its a daily choice. Counting the cost is not only a Scriptural reality, it has been borne out down through the centuries in the lives of the the saints. How we respond to this call will determine the kind of walk we have in Christ. History records many of the heroes of the faith who determined to take up their cross and love not their lives unto death and who would not live the compromised life. What kind of life shall we live? Well, if one has a cross on their back they will certainly die to this world. The crisis of the age is a crossless Christianity.............. brother Frank
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So, should I change the title back? Which one does the job better? Diane
Diane your thread. You go with what YOU think gets the job done. How about the high cost and benefits of Christian submission.Blaine
