| Re: Wearing a Head Covering|
Ginnyrose, as you are a member, I believe, of a Mennonite Church, and thus wear a head covering of some type, I would be delighted to know what the experience is like.
Please do discuss your churche's teaching regarding men wearing hats as well.
| 2011/10/1 4:39||Profile|
| Re: |
I love SI because of the great messages shared here. The spirit of this ministry and those attracted here is, for the most part, great. This should be a safe place to share and ask. During Jesus' ministry He was confronted to respond to actions that appeared to go against what was taught in Scriptures. His response was focused the priority on the condition of the heart. So let us remember or consider 'why do we say what we say' or 'do what we do'. If we disagree, what kind of attitude are we responding in? I think the way we are to respond is something we can all agree in.
Jesus' heart is that we would be one and that we would love one another. These things did not take Him by surprise. God knows these things would happen. I still have many questions I am trying to work out regarding doctrine. I have heard strong intelligent and logical support for both sides of many issues and I have seen [I'm giving the benefit of the doubt] genuine love in both sides. Even if the facts that one bases their stand on is wrong and the heart is right, we know God is gonna weigh the heart and motive. We can 'give our bodies to be burned' and it could be in vain. We'll probably never get everything right but let us get the 'main' thing right. I think if we can at least get 'charity' right, we've done well. But if we get all the 'other' stuff right but failed miserably on the subject of love, that would be inexcusable.
So let us go ahead and even be strong in making our point but let us do so with gentleness and patience. Give grace to your brother/sister who disagrees. If their reason for doing so is wrong then the Lord will judge them and if it [their motive] is right [considering they have honestly sought and studied] let them follow their conviction without condemnation. If we truly have a right heart, we would pray for them with love.
"...in all things charity". I asked my brother many years ago [he is a pastor now], what do you think is more important, having love or having your doctrine straight [it was sort of a trick question, rhetorical in nature] but there was wisdom in his answer. He said 'I think if you have love, it will keep your doctrine straight' to add to that and perhaps he meant this too, if you have love, it, or I should say, God will straighten out your doctrine eventually. As I understand my Bible, I believe it was written to primarily address the heart and it's condition in relation to God and also to each other.
Know that I am also speaking very much to myself and not as though I got this down.
Fyi, at TSC the head covering is not practiced or taught. Women, such as Pastor Carter's wife, Teresa, preach/teach frequently. I believed God was moving there mightily when I was going to church there. I believe He still does. Does that mean TSC has got it all right. I'm sure they don't.
So first, let us strive to maintain unity and love with humility and patience. Lord help manifest the fruit of your Spirit in us as we seek to follow You more wholly. Help us in the shortness of time to live in the unity of the Spirit. Teach us and reveal to us your truth. We're a zealous bunch here, even when we lose our way in our attitudes, help us to come back together and break bread again in peace and in joy. Bind us together as we are bound to you.
| 2011/10/1 6:56||Profile|
| Re: |
Wow, the excuses are amazing. Thanks so much for posting this, Greg.
As it's been simply put so many times, if the hair was the only covering, then men would have to shave their heads! All of you men who believe it's the hair but won't shave your heads aren't following your own argument. However, the men of God in the Bible obviously didn't shave their heads, so that poses a problem.
| 2011/10/1 9:42||Profile|
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I have been hesitant to post to this thread because I have seen in the past it can turn into a heated discussion. I have studied this topic in the past and shared with my husband as well as some other brothers that I know are walking with the LORD and sought out there understanding of these passages as well. After much prayer and seeking GOD on this issue I do not feel convicted to wear a covering on my head at all times but I do personally feel led to cover my head when I pray. At this time I keep praying and seeking GOD and if HE were to change my heart on this matter I would gladly wear a hat(covering) but I do not feel led to do so all the time now and I think if I did it just because another told me to it would not really be out of obedience to GOD but just going along with what men say. I love everyone here on SI. Ginnyrose I know wears a covering and I think she is an awesome woman in GOD who I often go to advice and counsel. She mentioned sharing the blessing she has in doing so and I would love to hear from her on this. For me personally I have read several teaching on this and will keep seeking because I know GOD is not going to lead me out of HIS will as long as I keep my heart soft and open toward HIM in this and all things.
Thank you for sharing the article Greg. I will continue to pray and follow the LORDS leading in this.
| 2011/10/1 10:16||Profile|
| Re: |
Questor, you are very observant. I have been here on SI for many years and you are the first to ask me this question - if I recall. In any case, you are right. I deliberately refrained from mentioning this because of the images this evokes in a person's mind. It will usually close minds to whatever a Mennonite will have to say - makes no difference what it is there is that instant loathing and or reserve that many times follow this knowledge which means that people will close their minds to whatever we have to share.
Some of this 'loathing' can be justified, I suppose, because most Mennonite are in great need of revival. Apostasy is so great and it happened so fast, I would say in 60 years...and this is right on the heels of great revivals that swept the Mennonite Church in the 1940-1950s.
Ok, back to our subject of head-coverings.
The wearing of head-coverings is NOT a Mennonite doctrine. The reason many believe so is because as a body of Believers, it is usually found on conservative Mennonites, Dunkards, Brethren, Hutterites and Amish. There are other churches that are wearing it, some Baptists and perhaps some Holiness people.
The wearing of head-coverings were done by all Christian professing women until about the 1950s. By then they were wearing only hats to church. The abandoning of this practice is of recent origin. If one is observant, when you see pictures of Christian ladies back in the 1800s and earlier you will see many of them wearing a head-covering, and they were not Mennonites. A few years ago we visited Williamsburg, VA and walked through that village.In one of the 'shops' a re-enactor lady was dressed in period costume and she wore a head-covering. (It was quite fancy, actually.)
Walter Beachy, a retired Anabaptist historian whose series on Anabaptist history is in the SI archives, talks about his Amish mother. He said when she was a young woman, was in town and a Lutheran lady was nearby you could not tell which was Amish or which was Lutheran from across the street. Their appearance was so near alike.
It is true there are many who will wear it for the wrong reasons. I am familiar with all of them, but this is like a lot of other things the Scripture teaches: the devil will take God's word and pervert it and this is no exception. Actually, do you know of any Bible doctrine the devil has not perverted? Off-hand I do not know of any.
This is all I will say for now. I have to go, but will be back, Lord willing. We plan to be gone most of the day and tomorrow and when I come back I will write more...
God is still good and He is Good all the time. Right?
| 2011/10/1 11:29||Profile|
| Re: |
I posted accodently under another thread (ironically about the Amish) about being troubled about this thread. There is a aggreesive Islamic agenda that is pushing an extreme devotion to the Koran. The teaching is called sharia. It is sharia that mandates women wear the vail or hajib. One would say that this is a religiou spirit taken to the extreme. I wonder if this thread is not giving in to that same spirit?
If one chooses to take the head covering as a matter of conviction then Amen. But I am not certain if this should be a command of the New Covenent.
The other thing that concerns me is we are looking to externals. Did not Paul tell us that circumcism is nothing or uncircumcism is nothing, keeping God's commands is what counts. Those commands woukd be articulated by Jesus in love of neighbor and love of God. Does not the scriptures say that God looks at the heart but man looks upon outward aopearance? Is God not looking to hearts that are loyal to him?
If I read the New Testament correctly then our loyalty to Christ is defined by a heart alignment to Jesus and not external observance.
| 2011/10/1 14:09|
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Martyr, you are right. It's like Roman's 14.
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
A lot of Christians think they should wear certain clothes or eat certain foods, some think having a TV is against scripture, others think striving for a better career is worldly, while others believe carrying any kind of life insurance or medical insurance is a lack of faith and trusting of God. Some even think going to a Doctor is a lack of faith. And then there are the ones that think women should not speak in meetings especially without a head covering. I believe all those caught up in legalism are actually weak in faith in need these "things" as their personal props. Ok. So be it. But we don't have to make doctrines out of them and make sisters and brothers feel inferior to us and disobedient to God. This is one reason why Brethren people hang out with Brethren people, Mennonites with Mennonites, etc. But, if we were all in a prison camp together, it is amazing at how easily these non-essentials will fall away.
Let's major on the essentials.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
| 2011/10/1 14:55||Profile|
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We should not question or judge the motives of those who do not agree with this practice of head covering if their conviction is genuine but this should also be the same way we treat those that believe in this practice. I would not accuse them of being legalistic. Maybe some are but I really believe many here are doing it out of obedience and surrender as they have come to understand and interpret these passages. Let's not pass judgment on them.
Rom 14:13...good scripture find.
| 2011/10/1 15:07||Profile|
East TN (for now)
| Re: HEADCOVERING FOR WOMEN by Zac Poonen|
While I cherish the messages shared by Brother Poonen, I do disagree with his conclusion on this matter. I do not feel that we are bound to any sort of outward display of holiness such as a physical garment.
Well said brother and I am in total agreement.
| 2011/10/1 17:22||Profile|
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You are right and I stand corrected. Neither side should judge.
However, the Christian has a calling to vigorously oppose any gospel that is a false gospel, as Paul vigorously opposed Peter's gospel in Galatia.
But, I do not sense that those in favor of headcoverings are propagating it as part of the gospel.
| 2011/10/1 17:47||Profile|