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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

codek,

As I read through your writings, you expressing your frustrations because God seems so far away after all you did to gain his approval... I thought of a few scriptures that might give you some insight.

2Thassalonians 3:6-

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,

8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you;

9 not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example.

10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.

12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.

13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Codek, this scripture contradicts WOF teachers, their lifestyle. If you choose to follow their teachings, you will experience some kind of consequences and you have found them to be devastating. If God would not love you, he would have allowed you to be comfortable there. As it is, He is permitting you to experience the end result of false teachings, forcing you to ask hard questions. This is not bad.

In conclusion, my mind goes to Habbakuk 3:17-18 NASB:

17 Though the fig tree should not blossom
And there be no fruit on the vines,
Though the yield of the olive should fail
And the fields produce no food,
Though the flock should be cut off from the fold
And there be no cattle in the stalls,

18 Yet I will exult in the LORD,
I will rejoice in the God of my salvation.

This scripture has ministered tome a lot...

(BTW: if you think you are alone in experiencing financial loss, you are not alone. We did, too. We farmed for several years and practically lost everything due to drought. This put us in a severe financial bind for many years and we had five children to support on top of that. My husband was forced into work that paid much less and we had to pay these bills, still. Bankruptcy was never an option for us...I,too, had to deal with anger and bitterness but this scripture in Habakkuk always came back to minister to me. God is still God regardless of circumstances. In my case I could guess God allowed this to happen to us to humble me.)


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/9/8 9:06Profile
ravenmolehil
Member



Joined: 2006/11/10
Posts: 279
North Carolina, US

 Re:

Job had a word for those that didn't under stand his situation & tried to minister unto him... ye are all physicians of no value. O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.
& In Ch 16
2I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all.
3Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest? 4I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.
5But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.

___This hymn also come to mind...

How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent Word!
What more can He say than to you He hath said,
You, who unto Jesus for refuge have fled?

In every condition, in sickness, in health;
In poverty’s vale, or abounding in wealth;
At home and abroad, on the land, on the sea,
As thy days may demand, shall thy strength ever be.

Fear not, I am with thee, O be not dismayed,
For I am thy God and will still give thee aid;
I’ll strengthen and help thee, and cause thee to stand
Upheld by My righteous, omnipotent hand.

When through the deep waters I call thee to go,
The rivers of woe shall not thee overflow;
For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,
And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.

When through fiery trials thy pathways shall lie,
My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply;
The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design
Thy dross to consume, and thy gold to refine.

Even down to old age all My people shall prove
My sovereign, eternal, unchangeable love;
And when hoary hairs shall their temples adorn,
Like lambs they shall still in My bosom be borne.

The soul that on Jesus has leaned for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to its foes;
That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,
I’ll never, no never, no never forsake.

_______

PS 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

 2011/9/8 9:17Profile
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

If we are wrestling with this in the realm of human reasoning, we are probably doing what Job's counselors did. They sometimes accurately stated what God had revealed about Himself, but they always drew conclusions that were offensive to God, (Not saying that is happening here! much wisdom) and discouraging to Job. Clearly, God has said He has chosen, elected...clearly God has said that those who seek Him will find Him, whosoever will may come. To us, this seems a dichotomy, but in Him, there is no dichotomy, only integrity.
so the Bible's declaration of our election is not to be a source of discouragement, but wonder, and comfort. Unwrap your human reasoning from this for a moment, and comfort yourself with the goodness and mercy of God. Who is He, what is His nature? Who do you think is drawing you to Him? Does He will that any should perish? Will not God the judge of the earth do right?
God's sovereign will trumps all, our salvation is His to initiate and His to complete. This is a comfort. This is our hope. This is not a source of condemnation.
So why do we fear? I struggle with this too. My reasurance is found only in the nature of God. Put aside your salvation, and what you may be seeking, and camp on His nature, worship and adore His goodness. And He will be found.
I have never had a manifestation of His presence. Only a growing certainty of His goodness.

 2011/9/8 9:59Profile
Kono
Member



Joined: 2011/9/6
Posts: 31
Hungary, Europe

 Re:

Hey, brothers, do not fear at all!
Let us see the Bible, what it sais about: there is no way to write too much, so I try to explain as simply I can.
Please read the whole chapters and all other verses, and You will find, I am right.

On one side, we read:
Róm 9:21-22 Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use?
But what if God, willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

BUT on other side, we find:
2Tim 2:21 So if someone cleanses himself of such behavior, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart, useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

SO what does it mean? I coult tell it, like:
In the kitchen we have 2 cupboards. On one, we have the cups for special purposes, and on the other, we have the cups for common purposes. You decide, on which cupboard You will take place (see 2. Tim) but it is God's election, which cup He wants to use, for what and in which time.


Second:
Jn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

That tells us everything about rebirth. The wind blows wherever it will. When He blows to some heart, it will born of the Spirit. That means not predestination, but this:
Only God can give us rebirth! He gives it, when He wants.
Salvation is not a gift, that only need to be recieved! God is active in this process, so He wants to give this gift to everyone, personally! So it is false, that he is passive, once He have left this gift here on earth through Jesus, and now everyone, who would like, can go and get it. No!
That is why we can tell: I have met with JEsus. For He has, personally given me His gift of rebirth.
So what to do? HE commands us to repent. Not to rebirth. He will do His job in me, to be able to get this gift. If a pastor tells You to tell a prayer, and You have got salvation, do not believe Him! For no man on earht has the right to give You salvation, or to guarantee, that on that moment God gives that to You.
Only evangelist can tell: Search for God! I show the way. When You have found Him, he will give You this gift. So be on the right place, near the wind, on the right cupboard. And if not now, but hours, days, or weeks later, He will find You. For He has promised:
Jak 4:8-9 Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and make your hearts pure, you double-minded.Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter into mourning and your joy into despair.

That's all:)


_________________
Kotán Norbert

 2011/9/8 12:27Profile









 Re:

maryjane, I'm sorry is I gave you a wrong impression on my last post but I never felt you were attacking me in any way.

Most of the people here do not attack me but there are some who do not try to understand at all my situation and just order me to do things that without really taking into consideration what the issues are. I heard a lot of this all my life, they don't work.

I'm down for any rebuke whatsoever but if that person comes off like they are attacking instead of rebuking I'm going to stand up for myself.

There is also a lot of miscommunication here because there are so many posts and people can't possibly read all the posts and most people don't know my whole story.


 2011/9/8 17:39









 Re:

ginnyrose. Thank you for the verses but I'm not sure which part of the scripture you were trying to point out. To me it seems like they touched on a lot of issues, I'm referring to the passage in Thessalonians.

If you were talking about going to work, I am actively looking for work. I don't expect a miracle where God just throws money at me. I think there is a big misunderstanding here. I'm not advocating WoF doctrines. I want to work. But since my last post I did start looking for work in June. I got a temp job. I had the worst boss ever. He made some of my employees work 24 hour shifts without overtime pay. And if you didn't brown nose all the way, he'd find a way to get rid of you. That is the job that was provided to me.

I want to work but I hate politics. Yes, of course you have to deal with some politics but this was insane. Even coworkers told me this was crazy. And I was let go because when you are a temp, you have no rights. I wasn't willing to be his slave so I was let go.


The point I'm trying to make is that it's not my fault that I was brought up(like 99.9% of christians) in the modern church. I had no choice but to attend. And up until recently, I was brainwashed into thinking that was the true church. I didn't know any better.

Every modern church has a bit of properity in it. My point is that it really isn't fair to put this burden on me. I feel like everyone is telling me I should've have known better.

If I gave you a bible written in korean. I don't expect you or anyone to understand it, right away. And also if you went to church in america for all your life, I don't fault you for not being able to read from a korean bible.

But that's is my point here. Some of the people expect me to know the truth and they expect me instantly changed by their words in no time.

People who know the word are lucky because the modern church indirectly teaches us not to read from it. If you really look at it, the church indirectly discourages it. So the people who know the word are the very few and very lucky. I've begun to understand the importance of reading the word.

The scripture from Habbakuk is a great one also. And I like to add I respect you because you actually share your testimonies about your suffering and you had 5 mouths to feed during that time.

But I believe somehow before those trials you had the trust in God, there was something there. With me, I never trusted God, I only did what I did because I was scared of God. So when trials come, I don't have that foundation to rely on.

And also I think some people are misunderstanding me. Yes my fleshly suffering, to put it bluntly, sucks but that's not why I am going crazy.

I can't feel God, I can't hear God. The worst part of this is that God is not here.

If God came to me, TOLD ME, you will die a horrible death 2 years from now, you will lose everything, I wouldn't be like this. Although I would not like the suffering, my flesh would absolutely hate it, I would have a peace that surpasses that.

I can't tell who the voices are inside my head because the same voices I thought were God were telling to believe in WoF doctrines earlier this year.

Right now, I feel I got nothing.

Something is wrong and I don't know what it is.

 2011/9/8 17:48
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

Hey again, I am so sorry too, did not mean to be preachy. Just have had similar stuff.

 2011/9/8 18:32Profile









 Re:

Leeza, you weren't preachy. No need to apologize. And Preachy is all good. I think there was just a couple of people that misunderstood me and I misunderstood them. that's all.

Again I'm open to any rebuke or discussion but it's just when people think I'm just blatantly doing this without disregard for who God is, that's what makes me angry. I wouldn't do any of this if I didn't think this was very very important.

Right now, I'm not even sure He exists. He's awfully quiet to me. I don't know.

 2011/9/8 19:40
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

I thank God that He remains steadfast. I have felt that isolation, that silence. I do think, that as He lives outside of time, He can utilize that for His purpose to form a desperation for Him in us, which is His great kindness. I think I dont have a capacity within myself for that desire, I am so easily content with the "OKness" of life, the good enough, the simple comforts. Yet, He wants more for me, He wants me to have a heart after Him. He wants us to have so so much more, and the way to that is quite like despair sometimes.

 2011/9/8 19:50Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

http://tinyurl.com/HeWillCarryYou

HE WILL CARRY YOU
by Scott Wesley Brown

Their is no problem too big God cannot solve it
Their is no mountain too tall he cannot move it
Their is no storm too dark God cannot calm it
Their is no sorrow too deep he cannot sooth it

CHORUS:
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you

He said
Come unto me, all who are weary--y
And I will give you rest

Their is no problem too big God cannot solve it
Their is no mountain too tall he cannot move it
Their is no storm too dark God cannot calm it
Their is no sorrow too deep he cannot sooth it

CHORUS:
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you,

If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my brother that he will carry you
If he carried the weight of the world up on his shoulders
I know my sister that he will carry you,
he will carry you
he will carry you


Click here to hear the song:
http://tinyurl.com/HeWillCarryYou


_________________
Christopher

 2011/9/8 19:54Profile





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