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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Obey Your Leaders and Submit To Them (Heb. 13:17) by Zac Poonen

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 Re:

" This conversation should not be about Zac."

Praise the Lord, I have been saying that in almost all of my posts. Some people seem to want to make it about brother Zac, but to me that is simply a way of avoiding the question I continued to ask. Its a good question, its a very relevent question and I believe that its relevence will only increase as we move ever closer to the Lord returning. One of the moderators once said, and I liked it since I am a Scotsman who grew up on soccer, " play the ball and not the man," meaning, keep your eye on the ball, the question at hand and the relevence of it. .........brother Frank

 2011/9/8 17:10









 Re:

It is an excellent question that we should not be afraid to confront.

It is only a fearful question to confront if you stand to lose something.

 2011/9/8 17:58
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Okay house church brethren, let me see if I understand correctly where you are coming from. Are you saying that if there is a hierarchy in a church as to their church government(where one pastor is the "senior" pastor), that is sufficient ground for you not to attend or fellowship in that church? Even if they have good things going for them in other areas, such as sound doctrine(in essentials), a heart and passion to reach the lost with the biblical gospel, a heart to see biblical revival, a heart and passion to clothe and feed the poor, etc.?

In other words, if there are no house churches that believe as you do in your area(since they are so scarce), you would not consider attending a healthy traditional church at all if it was nearby?

I ask that because that is the impression I am getting from some of the replies here. It seems that many house church minded believers make this issue of church government a matter of division. I used to be that way myself. At the same time It seems that many traditional church minded believers also see this as a matter of division from HC brethren.

I think it is okay for us to discuss views on church government in a respectfull manner, like with any other non-salvific issue(like Calvinism/Arminianism, Pre-trib/Post-trib,etc.). But when discussing these things we can feel so strongly as to start using certain demeaning phrases that offend those we disagree with. That causes division. Both sides are guilty of that.


_________________
Oracio

 2011/9/8 18:14Profile
PQ
Member



Joined: 2009/12/6
Posts: 101
Europe

 Re:

Brother Zac Poonen preached a message entitled: Are you a soulish or a spiritual Christian?

The message can be seen on the sermonindex youtube page.

I consider myself a babe in Christ, and after reading all the responds, my question to the mature ones is: are you soulish or spiritual? as the writings of the Apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit, are your writings inspired by the same Holy Spirit?

In Love...


_________________
PQ

 2011/9/8 18:31Profile
mikey2
Member



Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


 Re:

Simple answer, Oracio.

The Lord leads me away from spiritually abusive and unhealthy relationships.

You can't go wrong with the leading of the Spirit and He will never contradict His Word.

It is God's will for us to have healthy spiritual relationships and to foster and grow the same.

Mike

 2011/9/8 19:09Profile









 Re:

Hi Oracio,

Not sure who you are addressing, but as I am not a house-churcher I cannot speak for those brothers( although I was part of a house church for a year one time)

I for one do not like the 'them and us.' I consider God's church to be found across the spectrum. My opinion is that if one is full of the Holy Spirit, then it does not matter what kind of church government that you have. If Jesus has the pre-emminence, and the elders and deacons are full of the Holy Spirit, then there will be humility.

If I was the janitor at a church and the Lord gave me a corrective word for the pastor, then the pastor should have the humility to receive that word. Now of course he must test it and bring it before the Lord, but he must have the humility to listen to it. If there is a pride issue, you can rest assured the Lord will choose the vessel to deliver the message, and it wont be one of the recipient's choosing( I have been the recipient, I speak from experience:) If a church has a system in place that bars this kind of activity, it is simply asking for trouble. It may take years or decades to come, but come it surely will. In the example I gave in a previous post, that pastor had built up four local churches with over 8000 members, over 30 pastors and supported well over 50 missionary families.

The Word of God brings security to His children, all of His children. Fianlly brothers and sisters, what if you are a member or part of a church and the Lord gives you a word. Should you follow the Lord? Or, should you follow the advice of men? Its a rhetorical question, I know, but worth considering..........brother Frank

 2011/9/8 20:29
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

mikey2, thanks for the attemp in replying. However, I still do not know if you would refuse to be part of a church where there is a senior pastor, based on that reason alone. There are multitudes of churches that operate in that way, from many different denominations. But it's okay, you don't have to feel pressured to answer.


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Oracio

 2011/9/8 20:32Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Frank, appreciate your reply. The question was not for you personally. But I guess I was under the impression you favored house churches and might be totally against traditional churches. My apologies for the misunderstanding. My question still stands for brothers who favor house churches. If you do not feel comfortable answering it it's okay, no need to feel pressured brothers. God bless....Oracio


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Oracio

 2011/9/8 20:39Profile









 Re:

No pressure brother :) I love and appreciate you as a friend and brother in Christ, may the Lord pour out His love upon you and your family........brother Frank

 2011/9/8 21:51
cryinthenite
Member



Joined: 2010/9/22
Posts: 71


 Re:

Hi Oracio

If the Lord led me to a "traditional" church I would go.

I dont see the body of Christ cut up the way men cut it up.

I dont care how a church is set up if the Lord has sent me there.

I dont care what title one is called by I seek to love them in truth and grace only found in Jesus.

Not by might not by power (not by realy old tradition) but by His spirit.

 2011/9/8 23:15Profile





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