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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I have no relationship to the law. It does not apply to me.

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PosterThread
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

So what do you make of the statements by the Catholic
Church in the link i send? I will ask again, what is Revelation 14:12 saying - "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God and the faith of Jesus".

What exactly does the commandments of God mean in this passage? And if it is done away with why should it be mentioned in Revelation?

Leeza,

Go through the 10 commandments written with God's own finger. The christian world has no problem with all 9 commandments but the 4th commandment? Why so?

Read the 4th commandment carefully in Exodus 20 and see why the Lord asked them to keep it holy? It said because in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

It had nothing to do with the Israelites but rather creation in Genesis 2:3 - "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made"

Pray about it and allow the Spirit of God to lead you to the truth!

Read what other denominations have to say about the day of worship

http://jlfoundation.net/churchescomment.htm

I think this topic has been well exhausted so I don't have anymore to say.

Brother in Christ,
Kwamenat

 2011/8/21 0:56Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 347


 Re: Revelation

Actually mentioned 3 times :

Revelation 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

One of the reasons some anti-commandment theorists have invented the pre-trib rapture. To take themselves out of the picture, because they would have to change their present day theology, would they still be around at that time.

However since there is no biblical pre-trib rapture the above 3 verses describe the actual believers. If your understanding grace is not future compatible to that it cannot be biblical grace.

i can only assume what happened to the other non-commandment keeping folks at that time, they are either taken out, converted to the group of saints, or they follow the beast without realizing it, you know the one that is also called the 'lawless one' that teaches that there is no law or he would know about it. And of course he will call that 'grace' and have all the other redefined christian terms ready to keep the blind in darkness using all the "right, but void of content expressions".

 2011/8/21 6:13Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3397
Ca.

 Re:

Actually mentioned 3 times :

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

All three of these scriptures apply if they have the testimony of Christ and the Faith of Jesus Christ in them.

The believers in Christ are saved by Grace, I cannot keep the Law to be saved, none can. I keep the Law because I am saved, with the Spirit of Christ in me and the Holy SPirit by the power of God the Father through Faith, Now the perfect Law lives in me and He is the standard I can now keep by His Power, not by the Laws power, which if it had the power to save, we would not need the Cross of Jesus or Grace or the Faith of Jesus Christ in us, to grow into the image of The Only Begotten Son of God, all we would need is the Law, NOT.

In Christ by His perfection of the total fulfillment of the Law and given to the believer by faith:

Acts 15:8-11 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

There are many more scriptures that show that by Grace through the Faith of the Son of God we are saved, not by the Law, which kills.

In Christ by the Faith of the Son of God: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2011/8/21 19:05Profile









 Re: All

You folks are talking at cross purposes. Look in Mat.22:32-40. These are the commandments of God. Best summed up as of love of God and love of neighbor. Often called the two great commandments which hang all the law and prophets.

Satan is making war against those who keeps God's comandments. That would be the 2 great commandments of love of God and neighbor. Then those who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy as explained in Rev.19:10 . Satan's war against the saints is through imprisonment and death in Rev.14:10-11, persecuted church. Honest, ain't rocket science.

Blaine

 2011/8/21 20:01
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1275
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: cross purposes

Martyr:

I think that might be a good way to put it. It is a crossing up of the purpose of the law and of the definition of a commandments. It might also be a paradigm problem. I drew a grid of nine dots on the blackboard for my incoming math students last week. I told them to connect the dots with four straight lines without lifting their pencil from the paper. With only one exception every student adopted a paradigm that told them to stay within the borders of the nine dots rather than looking outside of that particular box. It demonstrated that sometimes we try to fit all of our solutions into a predetermined paradigm of our own.

In this case the paradigm is that God requires a born again believer to in some way to keep external ordinances. It is hard to come out of this paradigm as it is so deeply entrenched. We are born corrupt and when the law comes to us sin revives and we die. Yet we still try to "be good" through the keeping of external ordinances. Scripture calls them carnal ordinances because they are carnal meaning of the flesh. They are fleshly in nature, or external. Paul spends a lot of energy, and words, to teach the opposite.

I think one of the primary keys is in Romans 6 and 7. The rebirth requires a death. It is a death to sin. It is a death to the flesh and its carnal desires. If we are born again we are dead to sin and alive unto God.

Now I said that we do not have to keep external ordinances. This bothers some who worry that this is synonymous with lawlessness or licentiousness. Nothing is further from the truth. A person who is born again and is living from the Spirit of God within will live more holy on accident than they ever did on purpose before. If I am born again I do not have to worry about the commandment that says "thou shalt not commit adultery" because the Spirit of God will convict me over the slightest lust. I will be living out of the love of God. The Holy Spirit lives through me. This means that the life I live is no longer my own and I am no longer living it. Christ lives in me. So I will live as holy a life as Christ. That is Paul's point.

But I still battle the flesh which is yet unregenerated. So there is temptation, and there is a struggle. But the ten commandments never gave me power over the struggle but according to Paul gave the sin power over me. So to live in the spirit and obey it is to obey the commandments and ot keep them. They are now written in my heart and come from within.


_________________
Travis

 2011/8/21 20:59Profile









 Re: Travis

Your post bears witness with my spirit. I would say Amen brother.

Blaine

 2011/8/21 22:43
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3397
Ca.

 Re:

1 Cor 1: 10, another brother.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2011/8/22 18:11Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Twayneb, you said, "So to live in the spirit and obey it is to obey the commandments and to keep them. They are now written in my heart and come from within"

I couldn't agree more with this. blessings my brother!

 2011/8/22 23:12Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 347


 Re:

That is the one sentence we all agree with I think. What this then practically means for everyone is based on several different "other sentences" that somehow try to take way from that basic, easy to agree with truth.

What are for example "external ordinances" ? Are any of these involved in the 10 commandments?

Is Jesus fulfilling these in me, or would he want my cooperative participation? Is mental consent on my part seen as a act of faith, or would I want to make a outside reality out of it in my daily life?

I'm asking these questions after reading the prophets whenever they mention outward activities in the new millennium.

Some of these hint with evidence at the fact that a few things will change from the current practices of most denominations, for example the "christian" holidays will no longer exist, however the biblical holidays will be still in effect, and not "christianized" or "spirtualized".

 2011/8/23 0:10Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3397
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Travis;

""They are now written in my heart and come from within" ""



What does this mean and how does it differ from Christ in us, who is the living Word, The Holy Spirit in us being the revealer of Christ in us.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2011/8/23 17:33Profile





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