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staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1448


 Re:

Hi Bowmyknees,Not offended but I asked a few simple questions and they were not at all answered.Truth is truth but it has to be backed up with answers.
I asked
1.Isnt quoting stories from missionaries experential doctrine?
2.The moment a person becomes a christian or indwelt a demon has to leave that body according to christians who believe that christians cant have demons.Yes or no?
3.If this is the case in percentage of these cases their must be demonic manifestations as a person becomes a christian?
4.Why are such manifestations not recorded in Scripture after the birth of the church?
Maybe you could have a go at answering,Thanks Staff

 2011/7/22 13:31Profile









 Re: to Sarah

These people who you ask about that "give themselves over to unclean, evil spirits" - how do you know that they had a Genuine conversion or are regenerated?

Those who, of their own freewill, enter into 'that' much sin willingly, are now in Satan's turf and if they are among the 'saved' - GOD will give their flesh or mind over to Satan and they will need to truly repent, so that their spirit may be saved, "as in 1 Corth 5."

I left a series of teachings by an English man who is a missionary-teacher to Africa on page 1. If you care to read just #4 of that series, you'd see what I believe as well - and would save a lot of my repeating myself from other threads.

I've studied this and when needed, have been used in this area for 35 yrs. I do not feel it would help in the least to go into 'my' experiences - if you don't even believe His Word on this topic. And if the stories from "missionaries" has not been excepted by Staff nor you - how on earth would any experiences I've had in demonology change your mind?

If "you don't see it" in the Word of GOD, I can't make you see it. Christians having demons "in" them, is just not in the Bible. Not even the Saints of the Old Testament, as we brought up Job already.


Heresy in the Greek means "the opinion Chosen - Choice", so no one can change another person's mind, regardless of how much Scripture is given, if that's what they've decided on.
I doubt that you're Biblically illiterate, or else I'd post more and more Scripture. Your posts reveal that you have 'chosen' to believe what you have and neither I nor anyone else will be able to move you from your desired belief.

As far as the "missionary" reports go - I believe we've probably all read about these, at one time or another, so I don't understand why that's still a question or why these accounts are not being accepted.
As far as these "manifestations of delivances" that is in question - if we all have Bibles and would only do our own research, we'd find that not all that Jesus delivered had "manifestations" when the demons left the child or person. There doesn't 'need' to be any manifestations. Not all are filled with a "legion" of demons nor possessed from their "infancy" as the deaf and dumb son did who had a foul/unclean spirit since "infancy".

Many who get saved have had people report that their entire countenence had changed completely. That's evidence enough for most of us.
If we'd just do a search on our Bible programs on maybe just the word, "unclean or foul" [same Grk word] and look at each deliverance [just for beginners] we'd not expect each deliverance to manifest in the same way nor believe that every deliverance must "manifest" in some way.

If we "go beyond what is written" - we are then in dangerous [demonic] territory already.
And That Is the bottomline here.

 2011/7/22 13:32
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1448


 Re:

Hi Jesus is God,
With due respect you have not stayed on topic of the thread
I asked
1.Isnt quoting stories from missionaries experential doctrine?or someones countenance for that matter or the amount of years you have been looking at a subject.Yes or no

2.The moment a person becomes a christian or indwelt a demon has to leave that body according to christians who believe that christians cant have demons.Yes or no?

3.If this is the case in percentage of these cases their must be demonic manifestations as a person becomes a christian?(These are the ones that have a legion or a deaf and dumb spirit from birth)

4.Why are such manifestations not recorded in Scripture after the birth of the church?This is important because we are talking about christians not old testament saints

May I add what is the point of casting out demons at all if they are going to leave when a person becomes born again anyway?
Thanks Staff

 2011/7/22 13:56Profile
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Jesus-is-God,

I have many questions for you, but will withhold further ones so as to give you a chance to answer staff.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/7/22 14:05Profile









 Re: Hi Sarah,

Hey sister good to catch you on some other threads. So do you think a believer can be inhabited by a demon? I always thought the Holy Spirit and a demon could not occupy the same temple. Does the New Testament teach this? I see in the writings of the N. T. we war against a sin nature. What says the Bible?

 2011/7/22 19:00









 Re:

Actually if I read my Bible right Christ has defeated the demonic focres at at the cross. Paul writes to the Colossians that Jesus defeated and triumphed over the powers and principalities at the cross. Both Hebrews and 1 John say the works of the devil have been destroyed.

 2011/7/22 19:08
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Hi Martyr,

It is an interesting study to me.

btw, Sin Nature was non-existent until the NIV.

Also, consider this:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is defeated, no longer having the keys of death, but Paul says we still wrestle against him.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

If Satan is not to be overcome, then what does this mean?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame HIM by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Who is the "him"?

I think we can find out who "him" is in the previous verse.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

It's a great study. I am enjoying it. I have not arrived at a conclusion yet, but it is not glaringly obvious to me as it seems to be to everyone else, especially in the face of the current health of the church, today.

I would then have to conclude many who name the name of Jesus Christ as not saved. That would make many things for me quite tidy and convenient, but I am not yet convinced that the Devil is not able to get some kind of foothold, somewhere. What kind of foothold? I don't know, but it seems that if one opens up a door to sin, they are potentially opening up a door for him and what does he do with that open door? Just stand there?

We should probably bow out for now as Staff is awaiting an answer from Jesus-is-God.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/7/22 19:53Profile









 Re:

Hi Staff. With the same respect back to you - I do feel I've answered the questions of this thread and feel I've exhausted more than necessary on this.

Each person must come to their own decisions on Biblical Doctrine. No one will change their minds if their minds are made up already.

Sarah, I do feel that we all come to our own understanding by reading His Word and with prayer and by living the Life.

I feel at this point that we're going around in circles and it would be wiser to use our time in seeking Him and what He's died to give us - as I've said so many times now. That's what "Living the Life" is. That's when it's just you and Him in that place where you would bank your life on what you believe is true.
We'll need that absolute assurance as the days grow more desperately evil.
That Relationship with Him that knows His Voice and His thoughts.
I don't see how we'll make it through the future without that type of Relationship. But it's not forged into us on a forum - it comes through being willing to suffer for Him - through fasting - by being on our faces and praying as if our very eternal destinies depend on it - because it does.

Pardon me if I drop off of this topic now. I sincerely do feel as though I've exhausted it and have posted enough on this topic this year. It took years of learning by experience and crying out to Him to come to my conclusions. I could have never learned what I believe now through a forum. It's a long story that I'm not feeling free to go into.

Maybe next year we'll hit this topic again :)


In the mean time - there's 9 messages that are way beyond their weight in gold here -

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40117&forum=34&11

GOD Bless.


~~~


Amen, Brother Blaine! You'd have to know that if you'd desire to go on many Mission trips ... say, to Haiti or similar countries, that are not for the doubtful. :)

GOD Bless you!

 2011/7/22 20:13
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1448


 Re:

Hi All,
My next question was going to be what part of a person did demons occupy in the old testament and is their any scriptures?Put in another way did demons occupy people in the old testament in the body soul or spirit or all three?

One other question about casting out demons nowadays in the western world in particular.How does a person (non christian)recognise they have a demon and have them cast out when nobody except christians believe demons exist?
If any one has insights .......Yours Staff

 2011/7/22 20:39Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

"Sorry staff you were offended and not edified by my answer to your question.
Truth is Truth." -bowmyknees

Again, this.

 2011/7/22 23:39Profile





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