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""If as you say christians cant have demons may I ask again if this blind and mute man became indwelt at a Billy Graham meeting would he be able to talk and see, straight away?yes or no""
I don't believe a demon possessed blind and mute man would come to a Billy Graham meeting unless someone bound him in chains and drug him to the meeting for salvation, then Yes there would be outward appearance of exorcism and if God allows, he would see speak and hear.
"He whose mind is kept on Thee, Christ will keep him in perfect peace."
opposit; He whose mind is kept on satan will be kept in termoil, depression and all the other scheems of the devil which the whole armour of God when our mind is kept on Christ will protect us from. Where is our mind to be kept?If we keep our mind being renewed to the Mind of Christ, He knew satan personally and even He when confronted with satan up front and personal gave all the answers needed to put satan to flight. example; man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.
I know my Savior lives in me and the Holy Spirit will give me that life understanding to keep me in perfect peace. The only thing satan has to do with me is if God allows me to be confronted or have a thorn in the flesh, His Grace is sufficient and I rejoice even in this.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/8/7 15:34||Profile|
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Hi Christ in you,
quote -I don't believe a demon possessed blind and mute man would come to a Billy Graham meeting unless someone bound him in chains and drug him to the meeting for salvation, then Yes there would be outward appearance of exorcism and if God allows, he would see speak and hear.
Thank you for answering straight.I do think this is has to be a "yes" answer for if you feel that a christian cannot have a demon.
The problem with this is obvious however thousands of thousands of people have been saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit in Billy Graham crusades and to my limited knowledge I have not seen any exorcism happen nor heard of them happen either at a Billy Graham crusade.(I stand corrected if their is anyone that has other information and I would welcome input)
I could then say
1None of the thousands maybe millions of people that came to the crusades that were saved had a type of demon that manifested itself--unlikely
2.Nobody ever really got saved and indwelt at a Billy Graham crusade----Highly Unlikely
3.The Holy Spirit does not nessacarily cast out a demon when he indwells a christian(most probably because the demon cannot reside in a persons spirit)
4.Therefore a christian can have a demon that resides in the body or soul
| 2011/8/7 17:43||Profile|
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Thank God, during Jesus' 3 year ministry on earth He did not just hold seminars and conferences and crusades and make people come to Him. He went to them.
He was a homeless man that went to people's homes and walked the streets. He went to the people that needed Him because they would not have been allowed into His seminars and conferences.
The establishment could not handle him. Certainly did not want to associate with somebody like Him. No education, not good looking, just very normal, was not born in a good town and may have even been considered a bastard. He owned nothing and had no place to sleep.
He was not ceremonially clean when He ate and He hung out with dirty people.
Jesus did not come to judge, but nevertheless He had harsh words for those that did judge.
And what really blew their minds was when He cast demons out of good, weekly, synagogue goers and Sabbath observers.
Are we all sure, we are following this same Jesus?
Even in the book of Revelation, do we still think of Him as the everyday man that comes to people, or are we thinking of Him as some big powerful Messiah who is about to get His vengeance as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah?
Well, I will tell you what. He has not changed. In Revelation 3:20, he is knocking on someone's door and saying, "Hey, let me in, I want to talk with you".
On the Emmaus Road, they did not recognize Him until He broke bread. It was this mark of hospitality and serving others that caused them to recognize Him. After He resurrected, He was found having a barbecue on the beach with His disciples. The disciples all knew about His love and care for them. He demonstrated it every day.
That's our Jesus. Never pleasing Himself (Romans 15), but always looking to please others and bring them closer to Him. He is always coming to us, He always takes the initiative.
Today's "leaders" are very insulated and not found amongst the common everyday people that need God. They are found at the Christian seminars, conferences and crusades which are mostly made up of "church" people.
You can make a living writing books and making DVDs on what is wrong with the church. I am tired of reading those books and listening to sermons from anyone that spends all their time insulated from the Lost. I don't care anymore to even read or listen to great revelation from someone that spends all their time to themselves, "praying and seeking" God.
Why are we (the Church) not found amongst the lost? For the same reasons that the Pharisees were not found amongst the lost.
Think about what that reason is.
| 2011/8/7 18:34||Profile|
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What you say is probably all correct and greatly immportant but I am not sure of the relevance to the discussion but I stand corrected.
The questions I posted I believe also have great importance
and are very practical in nature to the church.If the doctrine that christans cannot have demons is inncorrect I think it has achieved a great win for the enemy.
Their is no other way except to disscuss the topic and see what the word of God says,
In your experience evangelizing among the lost have you seen a demonic manifestation as a person was excepting Christ and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit?
| 2011/8/7 19:03||Profile|
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I have evangelized amongst the lost and found demonic manifestations many times. Most of these manifestations were irrational and angry and vulgar and the people could not be reasoned or talked with.
I will say, however, that there have been some that received the good news of Jesus Christ and they manifested a deep whimpering turning into deep crying and that is a real and valid manifestation and a sign of deliverance taking place and I have experienced this several times, especially with alcoholics and drug addicts. The whimpering was strange and in retrospect I see it as a demon knowing that he is about to be kicked out of his home (body) and he whimpers in self-pity.
I have also come into contact with religious demons in the church (much the same that Jesus came into contact with in the Pharisees) and their manifestation is very aggressive and one of a spirit of hatred and murder. They want to cut you off as soon as they possibly can.
I am sure there are many testimonies of people coming to the Lord and being delivered from demons as they came to Him. I think you would just have to talk to people that go out on the streets. I have been to Mardi Gras and Gay Pride Week in San Francisco and most definitely you will see and hear demons and they don't go quietly when they know they are about to lose their habitation.
These experiences took place in our everyday world, not in a religious setting. Religious spirits are more quiet and calculating and not openly aggressive as sexual, fleshly demons. They always try to marginalize you by making you look foolish and stupid. They are very prideful and gravitate to control and greed.
This has been my experience.
| 2011/8/7 19:27||Profile|
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Thanks Mike,I was hoping some one could tell me whether or not they have experienced some deliverance taking place when a person is just coming to Christ.I think that the Holy Spirit can obviously deliver people as he is indwelling.I am sure that their are testomnies as well of this but I am sure that their are testimonys of christians being delivered from demons also.
When I became saved the meeting I went to was a healing and deliverance meeting.That was in 1988 and since them I have more or less forgotten the experience.I felt prompted to revisit this time and learn what was actually said in the bible.What I have learned is that it doesnt actually say that a demon inhabits a persons spirit.Mark 9 the demons inhabited pigs that have no spirit.The pigs probably ran over the cliff because the demon caused blindness and they stampeded.
Also I noticed that every demon would have to leave a persons body the moment they became saved if you believe a christian cannot have a demon.If this were the case their should be alot of manifestations at Billy Graham Crusades which their is no evidence of.Nor other baptist evangelists.Nor even pentecostal meetings.I think that their are times that the Holy Spirit delivers people at the time of indwelling and there are times that he does not but does it later.
I therefore believe as I did in my ignorance in 1988 that a christian can have a demon but he does not occupy the spirit.
People will say that what both of us are talking about is just experiential which is true.However as the new testament doesnt show a demon being cast out of a believer it also doesnt show manifestation of demons as they get saved.I think from acts on casting out of demons is just shown in context of evangelizing,
| 2011/8/7 20:04||Profile|
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People will say what fits their theology even though they have no experience.
A demon in someone's body does not prevent them from being saved.
Being saved is an act of the will not the emotions and not the body. Unless a person's will is completely and totally passive and unuseable then they can exercise their will and believe on the Lord Jesus.
Once a person is saved, Jesus will begin to be their Deliverer in greater and greater degrees, just like with Israel.
A demon that may be causing some kind of physical sickness if not cast out at time of salvation, may be cast out afterwards, once it is recognized.
You have to remember that demons don't like to be found out. So they hide and they have various ways of hiding from people. One way, is to give us a theology that they don't exist in Christians.
| 2011/8/7 20:40||Profile|
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"You have to remember that demons don't like to be found out. So they hide and they have various ways of hiding from people. One way, is to give us a theology that they don't exist in Christians."
Without having a show of hands, most everyone here has and continues to have some area of their lives that they seem to have no control over. In that area of your life that is most weak that is causing you to sin there is a demon spirit in operation. That doesn't mean your demon possessed. If you were, no one would be able to reason with you, you'd be crazy.
There are a lot of people that have a fit of anger, a rage that just controls that believer and afterwards, he sits in agony over what he just said or did. That is a demon spirit in operation.
When Jesus was casting out demons, He was casting out from His own people. These were God's chosen people to whom He was casting out devils, it is no different today.
We say that the Holy Spirit and a demon can't reside in the same place, maybe not in the specific place where the Holy Spirit dwells, but there are other areas of a man that they can dwell. And if not, what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit being that two edged sword if not to search the heart of man?
But we have the power to overcome these if we get desperate enough to want change. A lot of people can get freedom just by prayer and fasting and you would never have known that you had a demon spirit. But don't be a hindrance to others who can't understand why they can't overcome a certain sin by telling them that all they have to do is just pray and read the bible. We will need to equip ourselves with a little bit more understanding than that.
| 2011/8/7 21:02|
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Can a demon occupy in the presence of God? I don't believe a demon could occupy in the temple of God, physical or in spirit. If we are His temple, how can a demon occupy.
Are we not a brand plucked out of the Fire.
Zechariah 3:1-2 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
I don't have to rebuke Satan, the Lord has already done it.
In Christ, His temple: Phillip
| 2011/8/7 22:38||Profile|
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When God's presence (Ark of the Covenant) was in Israel, why did He allow enemies to occupy the land?
God's presence was there, yet He allowed it. Why?
What object lesson is He teaching us?
This was earlier brought up by Sarah.
| 2011/8/7 22:55|