SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Where do demons occupy?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 Next Page )
PosterThread
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 635


 Re:

There is a controversy regarding Matt 17:21, this is not found in manuscripts which are considered more reliable by many translators.

However, a similar passage is recorded in Mark 9:29 but the word 'fasting' is missing.

Some commentators note that the 'subject' is not about casting demons but how to increase one's faith, and that is by prayer.

Many times (or most of the times) a believer does not have amount of faith as demonstrated in this verse:

"Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly."

But to which the believers have a recourse of obtaining the desired results and that is through prayer.

 2011/7/29 20:11Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 635


 Re:

Here are the complementary verses of Mat 17:18:

Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Mar 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

Mar 9:27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

Note this_..." and enter no more into him "...

 2011/7/29 22:35Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1447


 Re:

Hi Passerby,
I think that is correct its about faith and the demon being cast out is only secondary.
In the verse below we see that the Spirit Cried and rent him sore.That would have to happen when this man became born again or indwelt by the Holy Spirit if a christian cannot have a demon.
Mar 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead
Are their any verses that say directly a demon possesses the spirit of a man other than using greek or hebrew concordance?
Yours Staff

 2011/8/1 16:53Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: Staff

"""Matt 17.21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."""

These were before the indwelling of the promised and prayed for Holy Spirit came. If a person is born again who had a demon, the demon must leave. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit will cancell out all demon posession. The Spirit of Christ in the believer takes the spirit of our old father and casts him out, we are posessed now by the Spirit of Christ who is our life and gives us His Father as our Father. "We will come and make our abode with you". Now satan and his followers can only stand of and throw firey darts at us. That is why we need the whole armour of God.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:4-7 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

Armour of Righteousness is Christ, whom God has made unto us. 1 Cor 1:30

Christ is the whole armour.

Ephesians 6:12-18 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth (Christ), and having on the breastplate of righteousness; (Christ) And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; (Christ)Above all, taking the shield of faith, (Christ) wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, (Christ)and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (Christ)Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, (Holy Spirit)and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

In Christ: Phillip




_________________
Phillip

 2011/8/1 21:23Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 635


 Re:

It is my understanding that demons in cases of demon possession occupies the body but in doing so it has to bind the human soul and spirit that the demoniacs present with a new personality and those bizarre psychological and physical manifestations.

The 'man' then has lost control over his mind and body though
it seems that those mental and physical manifestations are still subject to the physiological or neurochemical pathways so that we see that drugs for example can tranquilize these people.

I can not at the moment think or remember of any verse that directly tells that demons occupy the human spirit.

 2011/8/1 23:33Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1447


 Re:

Hi Christ in you,
I agree with all the scriptures quoted but none say that a demon has to go but only that the Holy Spirit comes in and dwells.It doesnt either that a demon dwells in the spirit of an unsaved person.
Their is considerable examples of certain types of demon manifesting itself as it leaves when cast out their is no examples of this either in the word or by experience(that I know of) happening when a man becomes born again or indwelt.
Also why cast out a demon out of an unsaved person other than a minor under the authority of a gaurdian?They will end up 7 times worse than they were before.It would better to invite a man to become saved(because the demon has to leave according to that teaching) and if he didnt then leave him with the demon he has,
Yours Staff


(These were before the indwelling of the promised and prayed for Holy Spirit came. If a person is born again who had a demon, the demon must leave. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit will cancell out all demon posession. The Spirit of Christ in the believer takes the spirit of our old father and casts him out, we are posessed now by the Spirit of Christ who is our life and gives us His Father as our Father. "We will come and make our abode with you". Now satan and his followers can only stand of and throw firey darts at us. That is why we need the whole armour of God.)

 2011/8/2 9:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is my understanding that demons in cases of demon possession occupies the body but in doing so it has to bind the human soul and spirit that the demoniacs present with a new personality and those bizarre psychological and physical manifestations.



Where do you get this understanding that the if a demon is occupying the body that it "has to bind the human soul and spirit"?

What does that mean?

Certainly if the enemy is occupying some part of a Christian there would be oppression, but that does not mean that the Christian would not have some control over their soul (mind, will, emotions).

I am just trying to understand what you mean by "bind the human soul and spirit".

Thanks,
Julius

 2011/8/2 10:18
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

If we are born of God, whose Seed is giving the rebirth that makes us sons'.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So Christ in us cannot commit sin? Correct?

If The Christ Seed is in us, He cannot commit sin? Correct?

But, if ""any man"" sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And (((if any man sin,))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So how do we reconcile the two? If Christ is in us and we are born from above and He cannot sin. How is it that He is our advocate with the Father? Even the Born Again can sin? Correct. So it is no longer I who live, But Christ who liveth in me. He is the One that cannot sin and that is who the Father trusts for my salvation, for how could Grace give me the Son and then trust in me to keep Him by not sinning? This won't work, I must trust Him and what He did on the Cross for my salvation by Grace through Faith, that I might be called a son of God.

It is the Christ Seed in us that cannot sin, He is our new life in Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is bringing new life to our soul/mind, by giving us the capability of renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ. So the old man mind can still sin, and some day it will be not in the flesh of the old man and the old man mind and flesh, but some day it will be just like His and we will never sin for we are as He is. Even now we can but most don't, even as He is in this world so are we.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

All the wicked one can do is throw firey darts at us, that is why we are told to put on the whole Armour of God, which we have in Christ. It is like a coat in the closet and we are freezing and won't put it on. It is there, we must use it and we won't freeze and by He that is in us we don't have to sin if we put Him on.

Every thought must be caught into captivity to the Spirit and Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which is a hard thing to do. But it is there.

The wicked one cannot touch the Son of God that is in us, we can allow by our own minds to believe satan can and his demons hurt us, Don't believe it and we won't serve satan ever again.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.

Where can satan hurt us? Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Only in our flesh when we serve other gods and believe they are more than Christ and what He did when He put down the god of this world.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/8/2 19:20Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1447


 Re:

Hi Christ in you,
That a nice verse but it doesnt answer the questions asked.
For instance I could take this verse to mean that if you sin you are not born of god and that the wicked one can touch such a person.Even though we know that all born again,indwelt believers sin but are born of God.So taken out of context this verse can say what is not meant and in no way proves or disproves that a christian can or cannot have a demon.
I still put it out there that if a christian cannot have a demon then why are no manifestations recorded when christans become indwelt?
Yours Staff

 2011/8/2 20:04Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

Re:
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

If we are born of God, whose Seed is giving the rebirth that makes us sons'.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So Christ in us cannot commit sin? Correct?

If The Christ Seed is in us, He cannot commit sin? Correct?

But, if ""any man"" sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And (((if any man sin,))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So how do we reconcile the two? If Christ is in us and we are born from above and He cannot sin. How is it that He is our advocate with the Father? Even the Born Again can sin? Correct. So it is no longer I who live, But Christ who liveth in me. He is the One that cannot sin and that is who the Father trusts for my salvation, for how could Grace give me the Son and then trust in me to keep Him by not sinning? This won't work, I must trust Him and what He did on the Cross for my salvation by Grace through Faith, that I might be called a son of God.

It is the Christ Seed in us that cannot sin, He is our new life in Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is bringing new life to our soul/mind, by giving us the capability of renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ. So the old man mind can still sin, and some day it will be not in the flesh of the old man and the old man mind and flesh, but some day it will be just like His and we will never sin for we are as He is. Even now we can but most don't, even as He is in this world so are we.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

All the wicked one can do is throw firey darts at us, that is why we are told to put on the whole Armour of God, which we have in Christ. It is like a coat in the closet and we are freezing and won't put it on. It is there, we must use it and we won't freeze and by He that is in us we don't have to sin if we put Him on.

Every thought must be caught into captivity to the Spirit and Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which is a hard thing to do. But it is there.

The wicked one cannot touch the Son of God that is in us, we can allow by our own minds to believe satan can and his demons hurt us, Don't believe it and we won't serve satan ever again.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Believing that satan has access to the spirit that is Christs' is sin and giving satan his place in the believers life that Christ overcame at the Cross.

Where can satan hurt us? Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Only in our flesh when we serve other gods and believe they are more than Christ and what He did when He put down the god of this world.

In Christ: Phillip




_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory"


_________________
Phillip

 2011/8/2 22:04Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy