That is some serious collection of interdependencies you bring up here. Only God can say things like he did in Gen 4:7. And even with that kind of insight and warning received the very next thing that happened in Gen 4:8 was that Cain became a murderer. He just could not "help it".Jam 1:15 really explains why, to show us that we loose our freedom with giving in to sin and any freewill decisions resulting from that situation are then limited by the degree of its influence, when sin has grown and taken over a person. I saw this sudden eruption of irrational rage resulting from that in a friend of mine when he started hitting his girlfriend when being drunk almost daily, and one second later got shocked about his own action, every time, because he was basically a very soft and non vilolent guy.I think there is a time in a sinner's life when it's not possible anymore to turn back and choose the other way. Sin is a very cruel master and is only satisfied when you die. My friend is dead now, he never overcame his addiction, it overcame him.Jam 1:12 is the way out of this dependancy, endurance leads to approval, not the agreement to the theory of it, the crown promised here is the crown of life. As in Rev 2:10 .... and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.Thanks for the reminder, sometimes we all forget the practical implications of what faith is. If our faith is not followed by action it is just a theory that has no power to prevent us to become a casualty of sin. I too fail in this regard and need to hear what you just said.
a-servant wrote:"I think there is a time in a sinner's life when it's not possible anymore to turn back and choose the other way. Sin is a very cruel master and is only satisfied when you die. My friend is dead now, he never overcame his addiction, it overcame him."Your words here describes this spiritual precept found in Scripture...Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.Scripture commentary on Scripture...Proverbs and Romans...Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.Pro 1:24 Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,Pro 1:25 Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes,Pro 1:27 When your terror comes like a storm, And your destruction comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.Pro 1:28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.Pro 1:29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD,Pro 1:30 They would have none of my counsel [And] despised my every rebuke.Pro 1:31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, And be filled to the full with their own fancies.Both of these sections of Scripture describe what happenes to men who "would have none of my counsel (And) despised my every rebuke." Pro 1:30. "Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, and be filled to the full with their own fancies."
_________________Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts.
a-servant wrote:"That is some serious collection of interdependencies you bring up here. Only God can say things like he did in Gen 4:7. And even with that kind of insight and warning received the very next thing that happened in Gen 4:8 was that Cain became a murderer. He just could not "help it"."Gen 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire [is] for you, but you should rule over it."Do you believe God meant what He said to Cain... "If you do well, will you not be accepted?..."
"Do you believe God meant what He said to Cain"Yep, I believe every word of it. God told him also the alternative to His first suggestion, which is "if you do not do well". The following is just a statement of the natural consequence which he then will face with certainty. He will be under the influence of the power of sin, and God said to him that Cain should master it. But he didn't, or couldn't.That's why I was reminded of what I saw once as a teenager in the eyes of my friend. It shocked me, because some spiritual force took over at that moment, something I can only describe as "irrational rage". Everyone in the group was quiet and didn't know what to say or how to confront the situation. Possibly Cain had this moment of irrational rage, and he gave in to it because at that point sin was his dominant master he did not confront or question, he just willingly followed and gave in to his masters desire.There might be a question that really pops up now: How did God expect Cain to "rule over it"? By what means and power. All we have here to go by are two alternatives, a) do well and b) not do well. Was this basis of guidance the full counsel of God for Cain? Since I do not read anything else I have to conclude that it was. If that is so I would conclude that the a) do well - solution would have be the solution of choice for Cain, because God said to him that sin was associated with the b) not do well option, only. Is that a conclusive look at the situation, or do you see any hidden variable?
a-servant wrote:"There might be a question that really pops up now: How did God expect Cain to "rule over it"? By what means and power. All we have here to go by are two alternatives, a) do well and b) not do well. Was this basis of guidance the full counsel of God for Cain?"God's coversation with Cain, is this an example of a rebuke?
How did God expect Cain to "rule over it"?
_________________A Just balance and scales belong to the Lord. All the weights of the bag are His concern
Andrew wrote: "If God spoke to you and said "if you do well your countenance will be lifted up' wouldn't you take it as an encouragement. Likewise 'if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door, and you must master it' as a warning."We know from Scripture that Cain's brother, Abel was the first prophet. We know from Scripture that God spoke to both Cain and Abel. This is the first example given to us so that we might see the ways of God. When God rejected Cain's offering, He speaks to Cain....Gen 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?If we saw that our own child's countenance had "fallen" because of our correction, would we not give encouragement?And then God said to Cain...Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire [is] for you, but you should rule over it."We are given this precept concerning God's way of enabling men to please Him...Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.Knowing this of God according to Scripture, we can see that God is willing to pour out His Spirit on those who turn, so that we might hear His voice. This is where faith finds it's substance to be hope for.
Dear brothers,..rookie,Andrew,Pilgram,a-servant, and others too,It has/ is a great joy here for me in keeping up with your brotherly conversation about the DEEP things of God. As we eat today,Be blessed,elizabeth
Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Ps 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Ec 4:8 There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.Ec 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?rookie wrote; """We are given this precept concerning God's way of enabling men to please Him...Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.Knowing this of God according to Scripture, we can see that God is willing to pour out His Spirit on those who turn, so that we might hear His voice. This is where faith finds it's substance to be hope for."""There is only one rebuke that works in the soul of man. That rebuke is the Cross. Knowing that no man will turn and seek God. God in His infinite rebuke to man, killed His only begotten Son that man might be redeemed. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Only he who has eyes to see and ears to hear, by Gods great Grace can faith bring man to redemption. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.This was God's plan even before He created man out of the dust. Ephesians 1:2-13 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,This is the great rebuke, that God had to go so far to redeem man that He even took pleasure in killing His own Son just to get me. That is my shame and the greatest rebuke I will ever see, hear or know.Isaiah 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.This is my rebuke. This is also my glory. Even the whole body of Christ.Colossians 1:24-29 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.In Him whom has given me ears to hear and eyes to see;Christ in me the hope of Glory is my only enabling: Phillip
_________________"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."
Phillip quoted:"Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Ps 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Ec 4:8 There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.Ec 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?"Sorry brother we are discussing Cain and Abel, don't want to get side tracked...Do you disagree that God will pour out His Spirit on those who do turn at His rebuke?
