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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Harold Camping: May 21st, The End of the World, and You

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RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I read of this formula as well. I am curious, has anybody seen how he concluded the Lord would return at 6 pm yesterday? My guess would be on how a Biblical day was reckoned, with the "evening" technically being the start of a new day?



I'm not sure on the 6 PM part either. As you mention with 'evening' the Jews consider the start of a day to be when the first star appears (so I understand it) so the start of a day is relative to the time of year. Not sure what they do on a cloudy evening. I can't help but wonder what would possess a person to make such precise predictions based on estimates and general information.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2011/5/22 8:43Profile
mguldner
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 Re:

"I can't help but wonder what would possess a person to make such precise predictions based on estimates and general information."

Because Harold Camping is a Mathmatician and so put it trust and faith in his mathmatical skills rather than the Holy Word of God. His pride deceived him just as the pride of Edom decieved them in Obadiah. I believe Jimmy is correct in saying its likely the man is bored with biblical Christianity and so went to the "deeper" things thinking he is so clever mathmatically figured out the exact time and day, what I am impressed with is he knew it would start happening in New Zealand. What's with the exact location?


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/22 8:48Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
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 Re:

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Because Harold Camping is a Mathmatician and so put it trust and faith in his mathmatical skills rather than the Holy Word of God.



I thought about how NASA scientists make their calculations to land a man on the moon or a probe on Mars, etc. but the difference is that they have a pretty good knowledge of the variables and can make predictions based on the various laws of physics, etc. What puzzles me is not that he used his maths, but that he was so sure of his start dates, etc. He was totally at the mercy of those that have kept the records over the last several thousand years.

Quote:
What's with the exact location?



I figured this was because New Zealand was the closest to the International Date Line.

Quote:
believe Jimmy is correct in saying its likely the man is bored with biblical Christianity and so went to the "deeper" things...



This has been a question that has troubled me for some time. There seems to be this notion that 'biblical Christianity' is not sufficient, but rather men and women must become legends and heroes so as to have biographies written about them, etc. I'm not convinced this is what God intended when He set out to build the churches of God. What ever happened to John Baptist's mentality, 'I must decrease and He must increase'? Yet today there is this desire to somehow rise to the top and stand out above the others. Men either want to be or want to make 'comic book figures' out of mere men. I'm persuaded that if each and every believer would get out and be a bible-based Christian we would not need super heroes or sensational stories. We could just 'be the church' and watch God bring the increase. No idolizing men, no press releases, no dividing the worship between them and God. Harold Camping IMHO is as much a result of a thirst for this type thing as it is his own willingness to play the part.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2011/5/22 9:04Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
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Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Harold Camping IMHO is as much a result of a thirst for this type thing as it is his own willingness to play the part.



EXACTLY.


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Jimmy H

 2011/5/22 9:29Profile









 NO SYMPATHY: MARK AND REJECT..[mercy on the followers]


I wrote previously about the "Follow the Money" principle. He is exceedingly rich. Many sources have said that Camping is worth at least 25 million PERSONALLY. and the Family Radio juggernaut worth a net in the Hundreds of Millions. [ which could be used as a slush fund for whatever bizarre whim he chooses to declare and do.]

Camping is a classic heretic, as seen below; a deceiver of the body of Christ. Also, let us not forget that in 1994 he put his followers through the same humiliation....and....finances donated before the fact...seem to have disappeared. [ I'll bet there are no refunds today...]

Paul the Apostle, and John, set forth doctrines of marking deceivers and false prophets, instead of this coddling in the realm of compassion. Mark, and reject! If repentance comes, and the fruits, and confessions agree with the Spirit...Yes...then receive such a one back into fellowship.

If this were done in 1994...on a whole-sale level....we wouldn't have all of this hoop-las today...and the humiliation that some must feel today.

Mark and reject him...just like the Apostles did, Jesus did, and John the Baptist did.....UNLESS.....they bring true fruits of repentance to God, and his true church.

Camping has been at this a long time, adamant, and rebellious in his tyranny and pride.

[ Below, are documents from Wikipedia ]
Examples of how Camping's teachings vary from past conventional doctrines are heresy.

1.].CAMPING'S PROPHECIES TRUMP SCRIPTURAL GUIDELINES.
Departing from doctrines stating no one can know the time of Christ's second coming, he teaches that the exact times of the Rapture and the End of the World are to be revealed sometime towards the end of time: (Daniel 12:9-13) prophecy.

2.] THE CHURCH AGE HAS ENDED...[Your deceived if in a church.] SATAN IS LORD OF ALL CHURCHES TODAY.
Camping teaches that the "Church age" is over, that Satan now rules in all churches, and that no person remaining in a church at the time of the Rapture can be saved. He distinguishes his ministry from a "church", saying that Family Radio does not have a "membership" or hold "authority".


3.] THERE IS NO HELL EVERLASTING, NO LAKE OF FIRE.
Camping now teaches that "hell" is synonymous with "death" and the "grave", and that there is no everlasting torment.


4.]THE CROSS OF JESUS WAS INCEDENTAL..

Camping now teaches that The Cross was just a demonstration of what had already happened before the foundation of the world.

5.] HE LIED.
Camping taught that the world would end May 21, 2011, [which he figured out mathematically.]

 2011/5/22 10:54
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 Re: NO SYMPATHY: MARK AND REJECT..[mercy on the followers]

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Why do we do such? I’m convinced we do such because we are ultimately bored with Biblical Christianity and the faith once and for all handed down to the saints. Because we think the cross is so elementary, we move on to what we consider the real “deep things of God.” But in doing such, we’ve show ourselves to be deceived. For there is no greater mystery in all of the universe to understand than God crucified. And if you can ever get bored with this mystery, then it shows you’ve never really even begun to understand it. There is no nugget of truth greater or any insight more precious than what God did in Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago.



Amen brother Jimmy. good article.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/5/22 11:44Profile









 Only God has a place to receive glory..the PRE-EMINENCE!

"Why do we do such? I’m convinced we do such because we are ultimately bored with Biblical Christianity and the faith once and for all handed down to the saints."

" Because we think the cross is so elementary, we move on to what we consider the real “deep things of God.” But in doing such, we’ve show ourselves to be deceived."

Amen Jimmy. This is a reason. A prophetic friend of mine once called this phenomena " ..."Terminal Boredom."...and , like Pandora's Box, if you entertain this boredom too much...it may take your life. [ Give me that ole' fashion religion!"]

But I do not think that it is the primary reason. The primary reason is found throughout the scripture, as "LOVING THE PRE-EMINENCE!"....wanting to sit in that place that only Jesus deserves....wanting the Glory of God for yourself.

Satan, then Lucifer, was not content in his position as "anointed Cherub." Beyond his great authority in heaven, [ musical attributes designed for worship..], he was created with great beauty. In essence, Lucifer had it all!!!...but it wasn't enough.

He wanted it all! and remember, that Ambition is the Twin sister to Pride. It is the unction to take it all. This is at the heart of rebellion, and deception itself.

"I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us.[ The satanic pride as seeing himself as the king of thew church....as Camping"]

10 Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words.

And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.

[ Ambition to totally exalt himself in his glory...also as Camping..if you are in a church, you are ruled by the devil himself...unless in Camping's organization of course.]

11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God." 3rd John..[ the Apostle John speaks..]

and Paul speaks in the infant Church at Ephesus the same spirit of attaining Pre-eminence, as Camping..] ..and a multitude of others who proclaim their "ministry..]

ACTS 20:

"For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things,

.....***to draw away the disciples after themselves.***...[ THEY LOVE THE PRE-EMINENCE ONLY DESIGNED FOR Jesus..]

The bible is filled with the shipwrecked who loved themselves and their king-ship more than that of the Lord Jesus.

This is Camping's motivation as I see it. He wants it all, and everyone and everything to evolve around himself. This is the nature of a Divider, or what we know in English as a Heretic.

31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. PAUL

 2011/5/22 12:47
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Only God has a place to receive glory..the PRE-EMINENCE!

Well said brother Tom.


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Jimmy H

 2011/5/22 14:45Profile





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