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 Re:

I went back and changed the title of this thread to the "Feminization of Christendom". I don't think it is accurate to say Christianity.

I don't consider all parts of Christendom to be Christianity, but I do observe that this "spirit" has infected most if not all parts of Christendom (even in some House Churches).

I think organizations of men are more susceptible to the spirit of the age and being "pleasers of men", willing to change in whatever way is necessary in order to keep attendance numbers high.

If we imbibe the world, we will look and act like them and the feminization of the world can be seen in it's public school policies, politics, children's sports teams, diversity training at work, sensitivity training, clergy hiring of females, gun control, etc, etc. I think others can come up with many more examples as this is fairly pervasive in everyday life.

The world has long ago become a fixture in organizational Christianity and that is why it is so easy to manipulate by the powers of darkness. Whatever is the latest fad in the world, the "church" then tries to compete with it or copy it.

A777

 2011/5/15 17:14
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Sorry A777 this seems to be a topic I just don't agree with you on which is quite alright. :)

"Think of the mental gymnastics that must take place inside a man's subconscious mind as he sings lyrics like these."

None at all if the man is truly in Love with Christ. I am one of those that writes music, I write in despair and in rejoicing and this articles openly judges this. Because as we all know sharing your feelings is definitely not manly. Come on, one of the greatest warriors of the Bible it held up to this article would fall in the same ranks as the girly men it seems to be pointing to. There is NOT a Feminization of Christindom but a Desantification of it. Men don't want to go to chruch because they love Sin more than they love Christ, this article makes our "manliness" an excuse, well its a bunch of beans. You don't see this in the bible, Please reread the Article again and notice the LACK of ANY scripture, ZERO actually this should have been a red flag from the beginning.

I know that Christ has many aspects and traits but he was a perfect balance of the two a Loving Warrior King dressed in Righteousness and Holiness. He was gentle and kind to those who had the right heart but to those that need a whooping he pulled out the whip and cracked it as a Shepard.

"Businessmen disdained the clergy as “people halfway between men and women.”

When did we start caring what the world thinks of us? This article seeks just as hard to race the things of the world as your girly-men preachers, it seeks to keep the church relevant but a true Lovers and Believers of Christ know its always relevant.

David's ONE desire the ONETHING he asked was to See the beauty of the Lord, I guess that makes David homosexual? I mean really, what this article has lack of compassion and understanding of God's creation that we all come in different shapes and sizes and masculinity and feminity and it judges those it calls "girly-man preachers" so what if they are girly men it how they express their love to God. (Please note I don't agree with the ones that promote false doctrine).

So what if I express my love to God in a "girly" song expressing to God "I AM Desprite for YOU, I Need YOU." It is of my opinion that "Onward Christian Soliders" produces more Religious Zealots than it does God fearing HUMBLE Christian men. Also you do realize that of those your quoted for worship are actually adapations of the Psalms of David? Jeesh David was a girly warrior.

This article would have been 100% better if it talked more about men loving their sin more than men being turned into girly men. Desancification is to blame, feminization is hardly an excuse.



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Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/23 7:26Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
There is NOT a Feminization of Christindom but a Desantification of it. Men don't want to go to chruch because they love Sin more than they love Christ, this article makes our "manliness" an excuse, well its a bunch of beans.



I think that sums it up pretty well.

 2011/5/23 8:14Profile









 Re:

*Update*

Yes, the "desanctification" of Christendom is certainly a big factor. I guess that is a "nice" way of saying the Great Falling Away. And that includes both men and women.

So, I would not be so quick to indict ALL men that do not go to church as "in sin". "Go to Church" is not necessarily "not forsaking the assembling of yourselves", and in many cases it is just a big show.

I still have to agree with Leon Podles, and his new book "The Church Impotent" (previous book, The Feminization of Christianity) deals even more with this problem and traces it back to the 13th century. As one commenter says, "this is not so much about maleness as it is about masculinity".

Here is the rest of his comment which I cannot improve upon followed by a couple of more to give you some more insight into this problem. It's not just about "romantic love songs to Jesus". The problem is much deeper and wider.
That is just one manifestation.

There is a scene in C.S. Lewis' Narnia Chronicles in which one of the children says to another, about the Christ-figure Aslan, "After all, you know, he isn't a TAME lion." And I believe it was Lewis also who said that perhaps Goodness was a more terrifying thing than we had imagined. Mr. Podles' book reminds us of at least one reason why men do not go to the modern mainline and Catholic churches: it is because those churches have tamed Jesus Christ, and NO LONGER TREMBLE BEFORE HIS MAJESTY. Those Churches are, fundamentally, not serious about what they are doing.
How many people realize that, in the whole of the Gospels, aside from his greeting Nathaniel with the words, "Behold, an Israelite in whom there is no guile," Jesus never praises his disciples, never says that they are good people, never allows them to celebrate themselves; he promises them rewards, but those are for giving up all they have and following him. Indeed, Jesus is often quite sharp with them: "If you, WHO ARE WICKED, know how to give good things," "Get thee behind me, SATAN," "O YE OF LITTLE FAITH." Yet the disciples follow him. Why? Mr. Podles knows why -- men look up to those who love them enough to strengthen them, to discipline them, to make them undertake the arduous adventure. Podles' description of the Penitentes in New Mexico made me wish that I, too, could show my love for Christ in such a drastic way; it nearly made me weep.

But I suppose what most endears this book to me, and what most infuriates me about the rather niggling criticism it has received in two of the reviews here, is that it bothers to take the winning of men's souls seriously, something which the Churches, in their lukewarm love, have found too inconvenient or upsetting to do! How comfortable our mainline Churches have become -- old biddies' clubs! Niceness and smiley faces are not going to save the soul of the tattooed man on the streetcorner: who, by the way, probably has a man's keen and ruthless insight into what is merely sentimental and phony. If he is to be saved, Christ must do the work -- and the one who preaches Christ to him had better have Authority in his -- and I use the pronoun advisedly -- voice. Anthony M. Esolen


I read this book several years ago, and am still digesting some of the author's ideas. There is much to ponder here, and a careful reading of it will throw much light on the ways in which the modern Church has been yanked off-balance by overemphasis on a feminine or bridal Christian mysticism. This bridal mysticism, which began to grow after the thirteenth century, focuses on Christ as Lover and tends to disregard the many images of Christ as Warrior, Priest and King. The author contends that to dwell excessively on Christ as Lover is to repel healthy men, and it is a reasonable conclusion.
The author also shows how men nurture, and how Christ, in His divine masculinity, nurtured and still does nurture, His Church. This nurturing is accomplished with the shedding of men's blood, as Christ shed His, and it stands in contrast with feminine nurturing, in which women feed others with our bodies and hands. I found this a very profound idea, and it made me view the relationship between Christ and His Church, as well as between men and women, in a different light. It gave me much more respect for men and their sacrifices than I had before.
I am not sure if his thesis can explain the absence of men from church life, but it seems reasonable that it must in part explain it. This book is worth reading for the detailed view it gives of the bridal mysticism in the Church, and for the other possible spiritualities available to men it suggests. K. Manizade (a woman)

A777

 2011/5/23 9:39









 Nicolaitan!...I hate their teaching..[submit] and their deeds..[ Jesus]

I think that in a sense, the decline of masculine ministry in the church is an identity problem that doesn't necessarily point as much to the feminization of men, but has numbed them as to their function...and this primarily because of the Clergy Laity system that mandates a priest-class to function over everyone.

In that functioning, [ of clergy/laity ], Yes...there has been a neutering... EVERYONE has been neutered except the ministry class;..and that could be construed as feminization. "The people"...the "congregation" has been taught to submit...and that propels a PASSIVITY by the virtue of it's nature.

In effect, another, other than the Lord Jesus Christ has become your head. Your identity as a Priest..[ we are a nation of Priests..]...and your Ministry...[ as each member supplies ] has been swallowed in the ego of another...and even if his lectures [messages] are beneficial....the person-hood that you were created to be and the Life that you were created to dispense...has been squelched...stymied.

You are not qualified to participate, or are you welcome. THIS, as I see it, has created the nuetering of the male in the church, as well as destroying any response, male or female, to the Lord. It has paralyzed everyone for what you were created to be.

Through the PASTOR/PRIESTHOOD.The body functioning, has been reduced to the PEW...the bump on the log spectator that may have the freedom for an occasional Amen...as long as it is not too loud. The head of the ministry...the head of the church...has been brought low to the confines of a MAN...rather than each and every member contributing as the Spirit would lead.


1 Corinthians 11
"Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head."

Christ is the Head of every man, and the well-spring of his ministry...which in turn invigorates his personality....person-hood, to be and to respond to the holy ministry vessel that he was created to be.

Add in the Jezebel Spirits [affecting both male and female..] that muddle the authority issues, the Pastorette, as the Co-Pastor...[ It's right out front there on the marquis!! Pastors Bill and Marsha!!]

...and the traditional Clergy/Laity style church is a mine-field...and usually where the Spirit is Quenched...[ Can you see that where the Spirit is quenched....YOU ARE TOO!! ]...He has already left...and they call it blessed.

It has become a dead zone...and men leave, and resist...and maybe not knowing why...but feel unfulfilled, and repressed. It's because they are.

 2011/5/23 10:41
Veronica226
Member



Joined: 2010/2/3
Posts: 144
Montana

 Re: The Feminization of Christendom

Today I was browsing through a book I have called "The Bravehearted Gospel" by Eric Ludy and it is all about this "feminization" of Christendom. A very good read for anyone interested.
But I wanted to post a quote from it that I thought was interesting.

"We've become so used to seeing Jesus portrayed holding pudgy babies and soothing lost little lambs that the idea of Him strolling into the temple armed with a whip to purge it of all its fleshly error seems jarringly foreign. Or, how about when Jesus stood toe to toe with the Pharisees and called them hypocrites 7 times in one chapter, as well as blind, damned, murdering serpents who were the unrighteous children of hell? (Matthew 23) This seems shocking language for gentle Jesus meek and mild. In fact it even seems "un-Christian," doesn't it? What has happened to our sensibilities when even Christ's own actions seem "un-Christlike" to our modern "Christian" mind? The only possible explanation is that we seem to be viewing Jesus not as He was, but through some sort of one-dimensional filter - a filter that strains every last ounce of masculinity, grit, or aggression out of the historical man Jesus Christ, a filter that is distinctly and overtly biased toward feminine sensibilities. It's as if the manly stuff has been surgically removed from the whole Christian mechanism and even from the way we think. ...It's almost as if we as the body of Christ have been unwittingly castrated." - from "The Bravehearted Gospel" by Eric Ludy page 43


_________________
Veronica

 2011/5/26 23:03Profile









 Re:

Hi Veronica226,

Good to see that others are recognizing this. I think many are at that.

It's just the spirit of the world (age) in the church. Men have allowed themselves to be spiritually castrated and BrotherTom mentioned something very important, the Nicolaitan spirit. We are all servants of the Lord and servants should not be masters over other servants. But there are a lot of other factors that contribute to this, also. Many have been mentioned. I will check that book out that you listed.

A777

 2011/5/27 1:20
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I think the important thing to note with this discussion like most other discussions is the need of Balance. Many times error occurs not because everyones wrong but simply because something is out of balance. Jesus is as protrayed by the Word of God and if you are a teacher of the Word it would be foolish to ignore a full image of Him, imagine only seeing half of a Picture.

This goes as well not only for the feminization side but also the masculization side as well because I have met many who believe Jesus was a "renegade fighter" seeking to overthrow the system. When in reality He looked to take His rightful place and bring balance back to everything by His shed blood on the Cross. So balance is vital on this topic and it all stems from reading beyond the lines and creating a Jesus that didn't ever exist.

Christ is described in the bible in many ways that if one wanted to could simply focus on the one thing and run with it to its death. Like Christ is protrayed as the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" but He is also "the Slain Lamb"

Balance is key in all sorts of things, and we must walk the straight and "narrow" and we must always remember that feminization is only one side of the coin and flipping the coin to a "masculine" Jesus won't be a long term solution just as "femnine" Jesus wasn't. I love the Psalms of David because you have this macho man type pouring his heart out to God in the most inimate way as such if you didn't know David was a Warrior you would think he was a sissy of some kind.

We have the guy that literally cut off a Giants head and then he writes a beautiful Psalms giving God all the credit in the most beautiful words, I think this is something men can learn from that intimacy with the Father is David's strength, joy, life, and source. If we neglect this we will also miss out on the Compassion of David as He refused the touch God's anointed one Saul.

But again Balance is so very important, I can sing wonderful Love Songs to the Father in anticipation that Christ is coming back for the Bride which I am apart of and also stand Guard with the Full Armor of God equiped ready to defend against the attacks of Satan.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/27 1:38Profile
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Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

David's Psalms are how a man should talk to the Lord and are a far cry from today's romantic songs to Jesus. I don't think anonymous was just talking about songs. He was talking about the total feminization from all aspects, of Christianity.

 2011/6/4 8:45Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I would disagree with this, David's Psalms are very similar to the romantic songs to Jesus today, why do I say this? Because a great deal of them are taken and based off the Psalms themselves. In terms of music and lyrics only the style of how the Psalms are sung have changed.

I understand that he wasn't directing specifically at music but read the Psalms and you will find the same thing. I often will pray the Psalms and pour out my heart to God and tell Him how much I love Him and how I need Him. If that is femine then I guess that's what I am. BUT like I said in my last post BALANCE is key in this conversation.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/6/4 8:58Profile





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