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 Re: The Feminization of Christianity




Is it possible that we could discuss the issues arising from personal contributions (like Enochh's) without losing focus on the topic?

 2011/5/14 9:37
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Fair enough. I stand by the words I've written, but I apologize if I've been misunderstood for lacking grace and understanding.

 2011/5/14 9:43Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: The Feminization of Christianity

I always enjoy reading the opinions of men...

*edited*


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/14 10:34Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
I always enjoy reading the opinions of me...



Haha, you're in good company. You'd better bring enough tissue for The Notebook this Tuesday. I'm tired of always having to use the hem of my lacy shirt when we run out.

 2011/5/14 10:37Profile









 Re: The Feminization of Christianity


Hi Everest,

Quote:
Fair enough. I stand by the words I've written, but I apologize if I've been misunderstood for lacking grace and understanding.

I don't know that you have. I just don't want to see a worthy discussion head for lock-down, just because we haven't taken time to rearrange what we want to say into a passive style, which provokes less offence even though it be ever so strongly worded.

I mean, we can quite easily discuss whether there is a limit to the accountability a man has to suffer for his wife's excesses, just as we could discuss why it is that women leave men who have emptied her bank accounts, ruined her good name and reputation, and included her in debts she had nothing to do with raising. Thankfully, we are no longer sent to prison until we have paid all that we owe.

 2011/5/14 10:52









 Re:

This topic is about the femininization of men.

This makes the second story this week where men have left 'their own home' because of some over-powered women.

Everest is right to side against any man that's letting Women Chase You Out of Your Own Home. That's number one.

On the other forum where just this last week I read a very similar situation. One of the brothers was wise enough to inform the man who left his home because his wife believed and followed some of the well known false-prophets against his will - that he may lose everything he worked for [his house] because she could claim "abandonment" - but that part is not the main point.
A man should Never let some rebellious woman or two, run him out of his own home. This happens a lot and if we're talking about "Men Being Men" - how does this represent the Thread Topic if women can out-power and run a man out of his own home - even if he leaves willingly of his own accord - how is that Scriptural???
Doesn't say much for this topic we're on here.

Jesus gave little reason to leave one's spouse.

Some would break up a home rather liberally.

The Femininization of Christianity is the Topic here.

Leaving women who are over-powering their men would definitely fall under this catagory.

I say Amen to Everest who sees that we don't break up marriages for any old reason we choose and according to the topic at hand - we sure as life don't let females be the cause of a grown man to run.
Get these topics Scriptural and you'll see where Everest - though single is right on target about "marriage and men".

 2011/5/14 11:17









 Re:

.... and, I saw this teaching come into the Church when some began to twist Ephesians 5. I've even seen this twisted version of Eph 5 posted here within this last week as well.

Here it is - Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church

From Ephesians 5:21 and up from that verse, Paul is speaking to The Church and THEN goes on in Verse 22 to talk to Husbands and Wives.

The teaching that has femininized men came in with the WOF movement. I watched it come into a excellent AoG Church that I was a member of back in 1979.
My Pastor got it out straight-ways, once he saw how many were trying to push WOF on others in our Church.

Those from the WOF told the men that they had to submit to their wives because of that one verse 21 that was aimed by Paul to The Church.
That men could not rule their household unless they came to a consensus with their wives.

Poppycock and a twisting/wresting of Scripture!

There are so many verses, through-out GOD's WORD that plainly say that even in the Church - Men are over women and Husbands over their wives.

And single women ought to watch how they post to this topic because it's "women taking authority over men" that is the "other half of this story" of the Femininization of Men in The Church.

Prove your points out Sola Scriptura or just leave it until you can!

 2011/5/14 11:42









 Re: The Feminization of Christianity


Everest, hello,

I had another thought. Previously when posting today, I deleted part of a post because it was getting too detailed and dragging on! But, there is one thing to bring to attention, namely, that Paul did counsel not to be 'yoked' with unbelievers in marriage. Even Christians contemplating marriage ought to consider whether they are, primarily, 'yoked with Christ'. This is an important part of God's design for order within a marriage.

 2011/5/14 13:42









 Re:

This is a tough topic. There's a tremendous amount of pressure put on men to be men in this sinful world, but I believe that is why GOD chose Paul to be the Main man in our New Testament.

Paul was only 5 feet tall or less. He was not much to look at and especially not pleasant to look at after all the floggings, beatings, eye-problems and so forth that he received. He even mentions that when he was present at times with the church, that he's not very impressive, but we all know how truly bold Paul was and the power of GOD that was on that man. Blinding one guy and be such a threat to the heretics and pharisees.

We also know that he was very tender toward women, yet wrote the most of a women's limits. We know that women traveled with him and ministered the Gospel with him, so to me, Paul is the #2 Image of the Perfect man - or a true man's man, as some would say -- Second only to the Example of Jesus Himself - the Perfect man and our main example of what a man should aim for.
But yes - Paul as well, as he said, "Follow me as I follow Christ".

Paul's my hero and we could all pray for one another, that GOD show us the Perfect balance.

Even if a woman is a prophetess, she's only to speak up - but not continue on once told to be quiet by a head of that particular church and just to leave if he goes over-board with his authority and she needs to know 'when' and 'where' to speak up, in a Church setting - moment by moment and situation by situation, as the Spirit of Christ leads.

Men know by the example of all that Paul wrote about women, of how they are to treat women.
Neither gender should gain-say over the other and I suppose that's the bottomline.

We've been praying that this topic would come up.
Both men and women in Christ, need to be set free from the world's standards and know how to be mighty in Him without going over any of the perimeters from His Word to both genders.
Men are to protect the Church from sin and anything false.
We as women are built to want to be protected. Amen!
And if Paul, as non-impressive as he 'looked' could protect every Church he ever visited, plus more, by his letters written from prison, etc - than any man can protect GOD's Sheep, as David protected his father's sheep - then went and killed Goliath as just a lad who had faith in his GOD.

Protecting was Deborah's job as well, but that should not have to become a standard. To my understanding, she was appointed Judge [and was a prophetess] - but didn't 'covet' that position and may have had it handed to her because there wasn't a man to do the job. A very rare case. Very rare.

A judgment from GOD from His Word is when "women shall rule over you and children be your oppressors." Isa 3:12

 2011/5/14 15:12









 Re:

Ok, I just wanted to get back just a bit to the Feminization of Christianity.

C. H. Spurgeon complained that “There has got abroad a notion, somehow, that if you become a Christian you must sink your manliness and turn milksop.”

Jesus is not really presented as a warrior these days. Jesus did real battle in the flesh against the Devil and expects us to do the same.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Yet, today, He is portrayed as a lover. He has traded His sword for a daisy.

Today, we preach a "personal relationship with Jesus", instead of repentance and a relationship with the Father.

What man does not want a relationship with his Father?

Here is a quote from Deborah Gyapong.

"But many Christian leaders still don’t get it. As David Morrow points out in Why Men Hate Going to Church, many of the songs now sung in church “have the same breathless feel as top forty love songs.” In addition, women are now encouraged by some Christian pastors and writers to think of Jesus in frankly romantic terms. Naturally enough, such forms of piety tend to create psychological barriers for men. The idea of Christ as our brother challenges a man to become a better man, but the idea of Christ as boyfriend is challenging in a different sense."

"Onward Christian Soldiers" is passe in most churches.

Praise music has accelerated this trend. Not only are the lyrics of many songs quite romantic.

-"Hold me close, let your love surround me. Bring me near, draw me to your side."
-"I'm desperate for you, I'm lost without you."
-"Let my words be few. Jesus I am so in love with you."
-"You're altogether lovely...altogether wonderful to me."
-"Oh, Lord, you're beautiful. Your face is all I see."
-"You are beautiful, my sweet, sweet song."

Think of the mental gymnastics that must take place inside a man's subconscious mind as he sings lyrics like these. He's trying to express his love to Jesus, a man who lives today, using words no man would dare say to another, set to music that sounds like the love songs his wife listens to in the car."

David expressed his love to God quite well in the Psalms. There, men will find a good example of a man expressing his love to God.

The "Feminization of Christianity" has been going on for a long time. This is not a recent strategy of Satan. Leon Podles actually wrote a book called "The Feminization of Chrisitianity" and although Catholic, his research covers 19th century Protestantism and earlier where he shows roots that the "Feminization of Christianity" began quite some time ago. He reveals some keen insights into this phenomenon.

Here is an excerpt of his first chapter, Armies of Women.

DESPITE THE CONSTANT COMPLAINTS OF FEMINISTS about the patriarchal tendencies of Christianity, men are largely absent from the Christian churches of the modern Western
world. Women go to church; men go to football games. Lay men attend church activities because a wife, mother, or girlfriend has pressured them. As Tom Forrest, a priest active in international evangelization, points out, only 25 percent of the participants in Catholic gatherings he has attended are men, and “when men do come, they are often brought along with some resistance by their wives.”

The strategy of American revivalists in the Second Great Awakening in the gage in private religious activities far less often. British sociologists Michael Argyle and Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi have observed that “the sex ratio
[women to men] is consistently greater for saying daily prayers than for church attendance or membership. The latter are again more under the influence of social pressures, while prayers are a private matter and reflect
more spontaneous religious concerns. This suggests that the larger sex ratios should be taken more seriously than the smaller one.”

The lack of commitment by men to the practice of the Christian religion is even more pronounced than the statistics for membership and external practice suggest.
In general, men who have a strong connection with the feminine through a close relationship with a wife, mother, or girlfriend are more likely to be involved in Christian activities than men who do not. If a man goes to church, he goes because a woman has wheedled him into what he would normally consider unmanly behavior. But if he goes voluntarily, he suffers suspicions about his masculinity. John K. White summarizes the popular attitude: “A devastating criticism of Christianity is many men see it as not only irrelevant, but as effeminate.

Words and phrases such as ‘unmanly,’ ‘for women and kids,’ ‘wimps,’ and ‘they can’t make it so they hide behind God’ are common.”4 Writing from his experience of charismatic communities, Stephen Clark laments that “Contemporary Christians often lack an ideal of manly character, and they do not value some of the character traits that ought to be prominent in a man ....

The contemporary picture of Christian character is all too often feminine, and the Victorian notion of femininity at that.”

The Religious Male The clergy have long had the reputation of not being very masculine. The mainline, liberal Protestant minister in the early twentieth century had a reputation for being soft and working best with women. This reputation provided fuel for fundamentalists, who denounced liberals as “little infidel preacherettes” in sermons with such titles as “She-Men, or How to Become Sissies.” But all clergy were open to attack, all had to face the “popular stereotype that men of the cloth were neither male nor female.” The clergy were seen as exempt from masculine trials and agonies; they were part of the safe world of women. As one layman put it, “life is a football game, with the men fighting it out on the gridiron, while the minister is up in the grandstand, explaining it to the ladies.”

In nineteenth-century New England, ministers of the most important churches were “hesitant promulgators of female virtues in an era of militant masculinity.” But the dominant churches of nineteenthcentury New England had long been feminized. Not only was the proportion of women in the churches extremely high, both the milieu and the ministers of the church were far more feminine than masculine.

Businessmen disdained the clergy as “people halfway between men and women.” Ministers found the most congenial environment, not in businesses, political clubs, or saloons, but “in the Sunday school, the parlor, the library, among women and those who flattered and resembled them.” Moreover, they were typically recruited from the ranks of weak, sickly boys with indoor tastes who stayed at home with their mothers and came to identify with the feminine world of religion. The popular mind often joined “the idea of ill health with the clerical image.”

In the vision of Unitarian minister Charles Fenton (1796-1842), playing Sunday school children have replaced stern Pilgrim Fathers and “adult politics have succumbed to infantile piety, Ecclesia to a nursery. Masculinity is vanquished in the congregation and, even more significantly, in the pulpit.”

By the end of the nineteenth century, the effeminacy of the mainline Protestant clergy had become a commonplace of satire. A Catholic novel, The Last Rosary, caricatured the minister: “He was a Methodist, a Revivalist, a Baptist, an advocate of women’s rights, an earnest worker in the field of missionary labor, provided said field consisted in gliding here and there to nice little evening parties, shaking hands—or, more properly speaking, finger tips—with ladies whose age forbade the custom of whole-hand shaking.

. . . Mild tea drinking, a little sherry, claret occasionally, and other helpsof spiri-tuous kind, did go some length in elevating whatever there was of manhood in his composition to thoughts of heroic work and conversion of sinners.” But Catholics, too, had their problems in nineteenthcentury America, if we may judge by the repeated efforts to get Catholic men to attend to their religious duties.

During the first half of the nineteenth century the English identified weakness and femininity with saintliness. George Arthur, the most Christian figure in Thomas Hughes’s Tom Brown’s School Days has an “overidentification with his mother and sisters.” On his sickbed, he looks like “A German picture of an angel . . . transparent and golden and spirit-like.”
To be Christian, for the mid-Victorians, was to lack the exuberant physical masculinity of the normal boy, to be weak, to be helpless, to be a victim.

In other words, the religious man was like the Victorian ideal of woman, who was supposed to suffer from mysterious complaints, to be unable to engage in vigorous activity, and to find sex distasteful.

A777

 2011/5/15 13:13





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