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that was a very good, very appropriate word, Linn. well spoke. thats Kingdom speech, loving measured gentle. tell me about a King, where a prostitute washes His feet with her tears and hair, out of relief, grief, joy, sorrow, thats the King i follow. i wish people would stop trying to be Paul and just get low, coz none of us is Paul....but i sure like what you wrote to our codek, God the Holy Ghost is just gonna ring his bell, wish i could be there. Thats why i'm praising God, codek aint going nowwhere, he's going back to Jesus, and i shout HalleLuYah, knowing that. i hope you hear me codek, Jesus will not let you go, you know it and i know it, love're gonna get a job, you're gonna get shalom,you just got to believe bro.....coz Jesus has you anyway.

I really wanted to shun God but even in the midst of this wreck I call my spiritual life, I believe you. I'm trying so hard to run away but something won't let me go.

Thank you for your words of encouragement and prayers!

 2011/5/9 23:08

Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean


Real Christianity is serious business. To be a christian, you have to be REALLY willing to die for this.

A willingness to die grows within us as we are conformed to his image (Romans 8:29.) When we become Christians we are baptized into his death and are resurrected into his life. For some of us the willingness to die to ourselves becomes the outgrowth of that. In Romans six Paul tells us to "Reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." -Romans 6:11.

It was an act of faith on the part of the believers who were reading this to perform such a 'reckoning' as a past event in fact. Not some future event one is to attain to through effort of self will, or through emotional preparedness.

Jesus told Peter that he would die when he was old, he would die for his faith in John 21:18. When Peter asked Jesus if the same would happen to John, his response was, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." John 21:22.

Some are called to physical death for the faith, and some are not. It is death to self we are called to. While this may seem insurmountable from one perspective, it truly is the greatest liberation from hindsight. I want to encourage you again Codek to learn from Christ as much as possible in these things. Men, for all their good intentions, have a knack for making these things sound far more complicated and burdensome than Christ would. Without Christs Spirit to help us, death to self is as impossible as hefting Annapurna across the ocean on my shoulders. But with his spirit, and the faith of a mustard seed, the impossible becomes not just possible, but a delight. "Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart." Psalm 119:111.

Jesus does all the heavy lifting bro. Not us. He is the captain of our salvation, not the tyrant of our salvation! He sits not at the backs of his soldiers whipping them into a battle fervor, NO! He is at the forefront of the battle urging us to follow him into the fracas. He is not going to leave you to fight this battle alone, he is with you always even until the end of this age! Until the regeneration! I cannot wait to see the beaming faces of every soldier then. Knees bent and crowns cast at his brazen feet. He is not weak to save, the onus is not, nor ever will be upon you. Look not unto thyself for thy saving, look unto him. Look unto his dying. Reckon Him to have been the one who did the work.

He says, "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Jesus is the one who died Codek. He shouldered the burden, He takes the sin, He comforts the weak, he carries the yoke, He spearheads the Christian march, He...He...HE is MIGHTY to SAVE!!!

It is worth remembering that even Jesus did not want to suffer the death he was appointed to Codek. In this manner He is greatly compassionate and not only that but empathetic. "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not as I will but as thou will." Matthew 26:39. And Hebrews 12:2, "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him (everyone who would be saved as a result of his death) endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." His death was shameful even to him, he too despised it. And he even questioned it at the end, "Father why hast thou forsaken me?" Mark 16:34.

When Thomas said he would not believe unless he could put his fingers in Christs wounds, Christ did not chastise him at first, but willingly complied to Thomas's need. Afterwards he kind of chastened him for it, but not first. Christ is humble, meek, lowly, condescending (in the good way, not the bad.)

"Call to me and I will show you great and unsearchable things." -Jeremiah 33:3.

Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/5/9 23:47Profile


Yes, AtG, that was a sweet word to a hurting soul.


That is the way our God is. The Bible says that the law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Without His grace we could never receive His truth. He doesn't just speak truth to us, but gives us His grace and love to enable us not only to receive His truth but to love it, also. He lavishes grace on us and I can see He is doing that with you. He has done the same with all of us.

The Lord wants you to come to Him and REST. Unlike the religious system, He has no intention of ever defrauding you or taking advantage of you. You are tired and worn out and weary of being lied to and deceived. Come to Jesus and rest. Rest, my friend. Unload your burdens to Him. He is meek and lowly in heart and He came for those that know they need a Physician. You know that you are "sick" and need Him. Don't come half way, come all the way. You are coming to Jesus, not any man. You have nothing to lose except a miserable life. We all lost a miserable life and wondered why we did not do it sooner.

Codek, in reality we have all been taken advantage of by our mortal enemy, Satan. His only aim is to kill people by stealing their hope and destroying their identity.

Jesus wants to give you new hope and a new identity. Like AtG said, let the old Codek die, and rise up with Christ, to be a new man.

"He who conquers" was the risen Christ's word to members in every one of the seven churches that are spiritually described in Revelation 2 and 3. Even to backslidden, lukewarm, failing Laodicea.

"He who conquers", To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev 3:21).

This promise to be a conqueror is beyond our strength and this new purpose of being a conqueror is way beyond our reach. In Christ (with Jesus) we receive the power to conquer even while we are in our earthly bodies. If that were not so, He would never have told us to arise and do it.

It is true that we must begin inwardly with a birth and must also pass through the matrix of death. It is like Paul said,

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Look to Jesus and only Him and you will discover the joy that vanquishes all suffering. Your life will be wonderfully enlarged in ways that you cannot even guess, because it is so totally beyond you. None of us could even remotely understand what we were stepping into when we "stepped into" Jesus' and took His hand and said, "OK Lord, I will trust you".

Hear these words from God to you, Codek:

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and WITHOUT PRICE (Free).

Incline your ear, and COME UNTO ME: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

COME UNTO ME, all ye that labour and are HEAVY LADEN, and I WILL GIVE YOU REST. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

If you have never heard the mountains singing or seen the trees of the field clapping their hands, do not think because of that, that they don't. Ask God to open your ears so you may hear it and your eyes so you may see it, because, though few people ever know it, they do, my friend, they really do.


 2011/5/9 23:55

 oh codek

I really wanted to shun God but even in the midst of this wreck I call my spiritual life, I believe you. I'm trying so hard to run away but something won't let me go.

Thank you for your words of encouragement and prayers!

oh codek, you just break my heart with joy!!! God the Holy Spirit used me to write those words to you, and by your testimony, you have proven Him to be Real, you break my heart with joy! He is Real! and Jesus loves us all, period, end of sentence.

in my own life, Today, has just been a huge Praise day, God has blessed me, and your words, are the cherry atop the cake. Good night beloved brother, neil

 2011/5/9 23:58

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


Jesus does all the heavy lifting bro. Not us. He is the captain of our salvation, not the tyrant of our salvation! He sits not at the backs of his soldiers whipping them into a battle fervor, NO! He is at the forefront of the battle urging us to follow him into the fracas. He is not going to leave you to fight this battle alone, he is with you always even until the end of this age! Until the regeneration! I cannot wait to see the beaming faces of every soldier then. Knees bent and crowns cast at his brazen feet. He is not weak to save, the onus is not, nor ever will be upon you. Look not unto thyself for thy saving, look unto him. Look unto his dying. Reckon Him to have been the one who did the work.


I hardly post anymore but I had to reply to your post because you nailed it brother. Thank God for this anointed message.

Blessings to all!

 2011/5/10 0:03Profile

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA


ATG and Areadymind, I too was blessed by your last posts. I can learn some things from them in how to season my words with grace.

codek, while I do not take the gist of any of my previous posts back, I do believe I owe you an apology for something. Concerning the other thread, I realize I did not read all your prior posts and the replies before I posted there. While going back and reading all the posts there I realized I did miss a few things that would have been beneficial to read. I will try to learn my lesson from now on, and read or try my best to read all prior posts on a thread before posting.

I am firmly convinced that the Lord has supernaturally shown you the sad state of the modern churches. I am convinced we are living in the time of the great apostasy prophesied about in the Bible. And I agree with you and the videos you recommended that there is much deception in the contemporary "Christian" music scene. And like you state, the vast majority of those who profess to know Christ do not know him.

Yet in the midst of all of this the Lord is still on the throne and His truth stands, even if it is genuinely or savingly applied to a small remnant of true believers in Christ. So while I sympathize with you for having been deceived by much falsehood in your experience, I also know that God is calling out His remnant and seperating them unto Himself and showing Himself stongly on their behalf. I hope and pray you will become part of that remnant soon.

As I stated before, growing in Christ is not overnight, but the new birth is. As followers of Christ we are called to warn every person concerning the urgent need to come to Christ in true repentance and faith. The Bible declares that now is the acceptable time, today is the day of salvation. We are warned not to boast of tommorow for we do not know what a day may bring. We may be here today and gone tommorow. We are called to plead with people on Christ's behalf, to be reconciled to God. My sincere best wishes to you.


 2011/5/10 2:06Profile

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA


JIG, I also wanted to take the time to thank you for posting those passages that exhort on discernment. I thought they were spot on.


 2011/5/10 9:56Profile

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas


Codek, there is a death to be had. Just as there was for Christ so you to will suffer it if you are to be born again. You seem so very close. I love that the saints have not told you what is offered by so many. Those very things that have brought us to the state we find ourselves in today in the church of our blessed Lord and Savior. A church with so many in attendance, yet so few written into the book of life which is the true roll.

You asked a few questions that have been answered, but might this help a little?

This loving of God before all things cannot be fully understood until one has been born anew. It can be seen from the outside. It can amaze and perplex the mind to think such a thing is possible, but it can only be realized when the blinders have been removed by God Himself. Many refer to this as a miracle. If vision is given where there was none before then how can it not be? Man will not educate or learn himself into this condition. He can however seek and it will be given to him, but only through Christ who is God.

The reality of receiving it in the new life is that God becomes first above all things. Which is part of the Royal command of God, but attached with a desire born of God that becomes as much a part of the believer as anything could ever be. There is some struggle by way of flesh due to this imperfect and temporary housing, but it is a part of, and common to sanctification. The church that is truly not representative of the true church has taken both salvation and sanctification and a great many other things and redefined them for the times. It is necessary and natural for it to do so if they operate by the hand of man apart from God. It is false religion. It is not new that men do such things and it results in the great casualty that surrounds us. This, God has allowed even you to see Codek.

So back to God being first. There is given one a new perspective on life. He no longer sees the wife, the children, the possessions, his reputation, or whatever he has held to as the most important thing(s) in his life. Many will say that God is most important but it is a mere theory that will not withstand the testing God brings. He test both the true and the false. To the false He exposes them, and it is a merciful action. To the true he does this in love. Not to expose them as liars, for they hold to the truth, but rather to point out to them those very things that impede their growth and hold them back from a greater dependency upon Him.

I believe you said, "is the perfect Christian life a life where you only suffer"?

Oh no! There is no joy under the sun that men will experience that can compare to the new life that is in Christ. Men see the loss of all the earthly things as a great loss by reasoning with the natural mind. When one is truly born again they for the first time see by discernment. A gift that is part of the new birth that allows them to see those things for what they truly are. No different from the Apostle Paul or any other born of God. It's that the earthly things are not even worthy of mention because they are considered the refuse of all creation when compared to this love we have for our Lord. The chasing after the world is shown for what it is! Anything that we compare next to Christ is seen as meaningless by comparison. So our love for Christ is greater than all things. It is by God's grace and it is a most graceful act of God that we are given the eyes to see these things for what they are. Imagine a wayward child on drugs, who comes after much pain to the understanding that drugs can harm and kill, though there may be a period of high that is enjoyed. You will rejoice that your child is given this new vision that allows them to see what this substance can do to them and rob them of. Suffering is not loss but gain. Even in the suffering there is joy for it glorifies the greatest Love of your life. What could possibly be greater and more joyous than this? Foolishness to a self centered world. We have freedom as we have been released from bondage through Christ. Even having gained freedom we still fight against those things that can temporarily place us in bondage if we afford them the opportunity.

The world will see what the Christian voluntarily gives up as loss. We however see it as gain all the while drawing closer to God. It will seem somewhat foolish but it is a truth driven deep within the heart of every believer in the new life.

I know this may not fully hit home, but it will not, until the fullness of the rebirth occurs. In the mean time it can be something to be pondered and that creates an awe of how God and how he can so change a man that even his greatest affections can be turned upside down and brought to nothing. Codek you have been shown a grace that has not been given to many. You are privy to things that even a great majority in the church at large do not see. It is a grace of God. I state the obvious but others have given you the gospel. Not as it is so often given in cheap form but in a greater fullness. One told you to pursue God in a place of solitude, another to keep seeking until He does His mighty work upon you, another to not give up. There is nothing more important in life and you find yourself at now at the crossroad. I can add nothing to what they have already given you by the Spirit of Christ that dwells within them. I encourage you in this pursuit and I pray that one day, and hopefully soon, God will give you the most excellent testimony.

 2011/5/10 11:42Profile


thank you for all your replies. I'm taking some to take all the replies in and carefully thinking about what I need to do next.

 2011/5/16 5:16

Joined: 2008/12/25
Posts: 78

 Re: Deconversion: I can't say this guy is lying.

Codex, I did you the courtesy of listening to the entire You Tube posts, then even read some of the comments.

I saw in the videos a young man crying out to be heard about seeing and feeling nothing of the Holy Spirit in these meetings, these youth camps.

If this is the only food being given to the younglings of this world, then I understand the spiritual starvation that many feel today in the churches.

If all that is given these young ones is a feelly touchy music extravaganza, they will indeed not find even the milk they should be receiving. Concerts are great, but they need to be labeled as such.

This is the time of the great falling away...and the young are being poisened, both by the world, and by the secularity of the churches they are told to attend. Yet, if you read the Testaments, you see instead that people went to Synagogue to listen to a portion of the scriptures, and then discuss them. Much of the ceremonial praying was done by the Cantor, and was and still is sung, but worship songs for the sake of worship songs was not done then as a group, and I wonder why it is done now? Miriam's song, and the song in Revelation are victory songs, but not sing alongs done night after night to woo the younglings into a Godless Church with beauty and emotion, and call it praise.

Yeshua, when He read the daily portion, and cut it off early, only to say 'These words are fulfilled in your ears', I'm very sure there was a vigourous discussion afterward. The young man on the video's at You Tube is looking for God, loves God, despite his so called de-conversion from his church. He is merely in 'the valley of weeping', despite what it is called on the 'net.

Indeed, David sang to God, and about God, and danced before the people in worship, but it was a personal thing, just like prayer should be.

Assemblies are for teaching the scriptures, general intervention or thanksgiving prayer, and Bible study. Singing a few songs is fine, if you like the music, but I prefer to pick my music and words, and sing my concerts on the hilltops where only God can hear my voice, or care how 'religious' I look.

God says to sing to Him a new song, so it isn't the music that is the's the sensual idolatry of group song when the music is sung for physical pleasure, not just for spiritual connection.

These are man's traditions, not God's desire...and I would probably be as sick at watching and hearing a church performance as I have heard seen and described by this young man our brother Codex brings to us to watch, and understand.

I am sorry that many of my sisters and brothers here are so ready to write off the pain of this young man, without even trying to reach him! It isn't hard to sign into You Tube and Google in order to give the guy a little hope, you know.

Please, be more gentle with these hurting and confused ones...the Adversary is reaching out to them in particular...probably because the young man was being effective in ministry.

 2011/5/28 18:52Profile

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