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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation

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White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Matthew Henry Commentary of Hos 2:16

II. That, though they had been much addicted to the worship of Baal, they should now be perfectly weaned from it, should relinquish and abandon all appearances of idolatry and approaches towards it, and cleave to God only, and worship him as he appoints, v. 16, 17. Note, The surest pledge and token of God's favour to any people is his effectual parting between them and their beloved sins. The worship of Baal was the sin that did most easily beset the people of Israel; it was their own iniquity, the sin that had dominion over them; but now that idolatry shall be quite abolished, and there shall not be the least remains of it among them.
1. The idols of Baal shall not be mentioned, not any of the Baals that in the days of Baalim had made so great a noise with, O Baal! hear us; O Baal! hear us. The very names of Baalim shall be taken out of their mouths; they shall be so disused that they shall be quite forgotten, as if their names had never been known in Israel; they shall be so detested that people will not bear to mention them themselves, nor to hear others mention them, so that posterity shall scarcely know that ever there were such things. They shall be so ashamed of their former love to Baal that they shall do all they can to blot out the remembrance of it. They shall tie themselves up to the strictest literal meaning of that law against idolatry (Exod. 23:13), Make no mention of the names of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth, as David, Ps. xvi. 4. Thus the apostle expresses the abhorrence we ought to have of all fleshly lusts: Let them not be once named among you, Eph. v. 3. But how can such a change of the Ethiopian's skin be wrought? It is answered, The power of God can do it, and will. I will take away the names of Baalim; as Zech. 13:2, I will cut off the names of the idols. Note, God's grace in the heart will change the language by making that iniquity to be loathed which was beloved. Zeph. 3:9, I will turn to the people a pure language. One of the rabbin says, This promise relates to the Gentiles, by the gospel of Christ, from the idolatries which they had been wedded to, 1 Thess. 1:9.

2. The very word Baal shall be laid aside, even in its innocent signification. God says, Thou shalt call me Ishi, and call me no more Baali; both signify my husband, and both had been made use of concerning God. Isa. liv. 5, Thy Maker is thy husband, thy Baal (so the word is), thy owner, patron, and protector. It is probable that many good people had, accordingly, made use of the word Baali in worshipping the God of Israel; when their wicked neighbours bowed the knee to Baal they gloried in this, that God was their Baal. "But," says God, "you shall call me so no more, because I will have the very names of Baalim taken away." Note, That which is very innocent in itself should, when it has been abused to idolatry, be abolished, and the very use of it taken away, that nothing may be done to keep idols in remembrance, much less to keep them in reputation. When calling God Ishi will do as well, and signify as much, as Baali, let that word be chosen rather, lest, by calling him Baali, others should be put in mind of their quondam Baals. Some think that there is another reason intimated why God would be called Ishi and not Baali; they both signify my husband, but Ishi is a compellation of love, and sweetness, and familiarity, Baali of reverence and subjection. Ishi is vir meus--my man; Baali is dominus meus--my lord. In gospel-times God has so revealed himself to us as to encourage us to come boldly to the throne of his grace, and to use a holy humble freedom there; we ought to call God our Master, for so he is, but we are more taught to call him our Father. Ishi is a man the Lord (Gen. 4:1), and intimates that in gospel-times the church's husband shall be the man Christ Jesus, made like unto his brethren, and therefore they shall call him Ishi, not Baali.


_________________
Janice

 2011/4/27 10:42Profile









 Re: What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation

Quote:
It is summed up in Hos 2:16.

Old_Joe, thank you.

And thank you, White_Stone for Henry's commentary on the verse.

The fact remains that Peter commends Sarah for calling her HUSBAND 'Lord'.

 2011/4/27 11:03









 Re:

Hi Oracio,

I don't have a problem with either passage on judging. Taken in context and by illumination of the Holy Spirit, they both make complete sense and don't contradict each other.

In one, Paul is talking about his justification and that he does not have to prove anything to anyone beyond the fact that he has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. It seems that some were judging him based on his outward circumstances. And that because of his outward circumstances he must not be "right with God".

Read the verses this way and I think it will help. (Sounds like he met some Word of Faith people).

1Co 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

1Co 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.

(Is he being sarcastic??)

1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

In the other passage, he starts out by saying, "It is reported that there is fornication among you". So, in one passage it seems that he is dealing with people that are judging his inward life based on his outward circumstances but in the other passage he is actually judging people by their OUTWARD CONDUCT, not their OUTWARD CIRCUMSTANCES.

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

The difference seems obvious to me.

He is talking about willful, rebellious sin.

1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

respectfully,
A777

 2011/4/27 11:11
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen a777, in chapter 4 he is not referring to judging based on sinful conduct but judging spirituality based on outward circumstances or appearances(like today's WOF does).

On the other hand, in chapter 5 he is exhorting the Corinthians to judge this man's sinful conduct and excomunicate him because of it. He is exhorting them to judge the man's fruit, just like our Lord exhorted. That is the main point some of us have been trying make here. And that is something OJ seems to be against.

And notice in 1Cor.5:11 Paul mentions sins that are not just outwardly blatant like fornication and drunkenness, but also covetousness. Interesting.


_________________
Oracio

 2011/4/27 12:25Profile









 Re:

Oracio,

What kind of fruit would pass judgment? We know that fornication does not, but where would the line be drawn?

What I mean is that there are all kinds of people today who feel they are qualified to determine if a person is saved or not even though they are not engaging in the works of the flesh.

Like AtG, I am looking for more clarification from OJ and others, and am learning just like everyone else.

Cheers,
A777

 2011/4/27 13:07









 Re: What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation

Quote:
What kind of fruit would pass judgment?

Not quite sure what you mean there. The sentence can be read both ways.

One thing noticeable from Jesus' comments about fruit, is that He says we 'know' the tree BY its fruit.

Now, if I'm unsure whether a tree is 'good', then, not by observation do I judge the fruit, but by tasting it.

 2011/4/27 13:11









 Re:

At what point "ye shall know them"?

Let me explain:

I can't tell you how many times I have heard Christians say that, "I can't believe I was deceived. He/She had so much fruit".

Everyone can think of stories like this. Prem Pradhan's close friend and brother of 20 years IN THE LORD, decided to steal over 100,000.00 dollars from Prem, while he was in jail and being persecuted. I think the 3rd time he was in jailed this happened.

Tasting (Discernment) is the way. I agree. You nailed it. It does not mean that you will not have been "burned" by then. The "taste" is the result. Yes? So, Prem "tasted" and found it was poison. Took 20 years for that particular fruit to "ripen".

Food for thought.

Some really bad and poisonous fruit is not recognized for a long time and in the meantime, it looks good, while some really, really good fruit is not ready to eat for years and in the meantime, we may think it is bad.

I don't know. This is an interesting conversation. It makes me think and I like that. Clearly, we have a walk to walk and we can do nothing by ourselves.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Blessings to all,
A777

 2011/4/27 13:24
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

OJ said:

Quote:
All that we can claim to be is with Paul, "sinners of whom I AM (present tense) chief".



Paul does not calim here that he is a PRACTICING (present tense) sinner.

Please read the whole passage.

12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


Paul here does not say that he is ( present tense) a persecuter, blasphemer, and injurious. Being the chief of sinners is Paul in his flesh, apart from Christ. That is who he WAS. So, although Paul is speaking in the present tense, yet he is looking back at who he once was.
We can not take that for an example to justify living in sin.

When a murderer who is saved through Christ from a life style of murder looks back at who he was before Christ and seeing himself if Christ had not reached out to him and saved him as a chief of sinners, but only for the mercy of God, that is gratitude. But if he continue to commit murder, yet claim that he trusts in Christ alone for his righteousness, that is license, and blasphemy.


_________________
Fifi

 2011/4/27 14:27Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

OJ said:

Quote:
So I ask, since "Christ died for the ungodly", are you ungodly?



If you are asking people if they are ungodly in practice after knowing Christ and hoping to get a yes answer. Your are promoying license and sin which is not the spirit of the gospel but the spirit of the false prophets.


_________________
Fifi

 2011/4/27 14:33Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

murrcolr said:

Quote:
Heb 3:16-19 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Quote:
Whats stops you for entering his rest (Full Salvation)....unbelief....not the lack of works..






The author here in the text equates unbelief and sin.
"They rebelled, disobeyed" v.16, and "They did not believe"v.19 can not exist one without the other.


I can show you from the whole Bible that every sin man commits from lying to adultery, to fear, to rebellion is a result of unbelief.
When Abraham lied about his wife, it was because he doubted the promise f God to make him a great nation. He feared( unbelief) to be killed and therefore lied(unbelief), because he thought that God can not preserve his life and fulfill His promise.




_________________
Fifi

 2011/4/27 14:47Profile





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