knitefall

IPE? what is this?

Thankyou everyone,

I will wait on God and pray for this boldness.

_________________
"I was seized by the power of a great affection."
~ Brennan Mannings

Since He looked upon me, my heart is not my own. He hath run away to heaven with it. ~ Samuel Rutherford

Knitefall, I understand your stance to an extent, I even understand the importance of Baptism, BUT I just can't see Speaking in tongues as the all inclusive evidence of Baptism.

What Baptism will do physically is promote Holy and loving living, I don't need to speak in tongues for this but operate according to the Spirits leading. How do I know I have the Spirit, you may ask. I know because I walk and produce the Fruit of that Spirit.

Christ said Matthew 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits..."

Christ doesn't say you will know them by their gifts but BY the Fruit they produce on a regular basis. THEN Christ continues... Matthew 7:22 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

These men Jesus is talking about operated in the gifts of prophecy, casted out demons, and worked Miracles. THEY too had gifts they used but Jesus will continuously look at your heart. I am not saying gifts=lawlessness but what I am saying is you can use gifts as evidence but can in fact can be a cover for lawlessness and so make a poor "evidence"

Christ also says in John 13:35 "35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

When we meet someone that professes Christianity our first question shouldn't be "Do they speak in tongues" but Do they operate in Love?

Please understand the heart of this, I believe and acknowledge and even operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit (the ones given to me) but these are only extension of Love. The gifts are dependant on Love but Love is not dependant on the gifts as affirmed by Paul in:

1 Corinthian 13:1-3 " 1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

There are also many Preacher on this site that we can no doubt called Spirit filled and yet their testimonies affirm they never have/did speak in tongues. A.W Tozer to my knowledge being one of these men yet many call him a prophet.

One baptised in the Holy Spirit will live a Holy Life and have great Love for God and great Love for the brethren. They will also have and express the fruits of the Spirit described in Galatians 5:22-23 "22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Sorry to be so animate about this topic but I believe there are many people that fall under the bonage of not being "Spirit-filled" because they don't speak in tongues but yet they operate in a different gift given and are just as Spirit-filled as one that speaks in tongues.

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mguldner:

I believe you are attempting to put up a different argument whether you know better or not. I did not speak at all about the Gifts of the Spirit, which are completely different from the Acts 2 experience.

Many get the two different topics mixed up. There are words from our Lord and interpretations. There are Gifts of healing and wisdom and etc...

And then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking something. The purposes I have briefly outlined in an above post.

thank you.

Firstly i would like to say that by his spirit i speak in tongues and have and can both interpret tongues and prophesy. I can also discern spirits. In a nutshell i am not a cessasionalist.

warning!!! many times in pride and arrogance we speak of things we partially understand. Remember we will give an account for every idle word. So watch what you say about the Holy spirit.!!!!


PROOF BY INDUCTION

Logic: For 5 consecutive Mondays i parked in the car park and a starbucks lady handed me free coffee.

Deductions
1. If you park on a monday you will get free coffee
2. you will always get a coffee from a starbucks lady if you park on a monday.

Both statements are inferred truth. Simimar to....

there are n-times in the bible where people were baptised and spoke in tongues therefore ill assume everytime someone is baptised they will speak in tongues.

This is simply not always true like with the case of the coffee example. Gifts often accompanies baptism but the gifts are not the baptism or even the evidence. The evidence is fruit not gifts. Gifts can be faked or fleshly inspired.

Just had a baby girl praise god a few months ago. She is the fruit of my marriage to my wife. You can infer we consummated the marriage because there is evidence to show for it. Its similar to when we are espoused to the lord via the baptism of the holy spirit. The evidence that i am hitched to the groom and in a consummated intimate relationship with him is the fruit of our union. Jesus said a Good tree cannot bear bad fruit. fruit is the most reliable indicator and the indicator jesus, paul, james, john and peter tell us to look for.

There is a very high correlation in the text with the number of times people received a baptism and simultaneous utterances. But in sound hermeneutic interpretation it is still an eisegetical inferring. Find me one scripture where God says explicitly that the baptism of the spirit is evidenced by tongues in the context of an individual? The point im making is the evidence of tongues is only infered implicitly to and individual but explicitly to the corporate body (one body many parts(gifts)).

Is this not what the deciples spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance?

The truth about Jesus, that is what tongues are for.

Of course this is a new tongue, this is what the Holy Spirit came for, to give forth the truth about the Son of God that all might be saved. All that were there heard it in their own language. Tongues

Acts 2:22-33 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

"That which ye now see and hear".

All speaking Christ.

By the Holy Spirit. Do you think they all heard Peter in their own language? Tongues

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and ((((all ye that dwell at Jerusalem,)))) be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

In Christ: Phillip

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"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."