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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism of the Holy Spirit

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 Re:

I think I have not received a baptism in the holy spirit. I have had times when I sense very strongly God is real, then other times when I have doubts. When you have received this baptism, do you definately KNOW you have received it? What do you feel? Does the feeling last?

One more thing, it is said if you don't have the spirit you are not of Christ. I believe, is it possible to have the spirit without the full baptism.

 2011/1/24 7:30









 Re:

Quote:
When you have received this baptism, do you definitely KNOW you have received it? What do you feel? Does the feeling last?

For me, I had and like you have at times timid faith. I had and still have some issues with being accepted by God. So when I was filled with the Holy Spirit, and everyone in the Church gathered around me in support in prayer, I left a bit disappointed. I read the spectacular ways people were filled. I expected to be knocked over, I expected fireworks, I expected tongues to roll out of my mouth, I expected so much and got so little. My beginning was small. I went home and opened my mouth to speak in tongues and that too was disappointing, it wasn't anything like what the older saints were uttering.

Now, for months prior I was seeking to be filled. I had so many ideas about being filled that it really clouded my thinking. Fear had a lot to do with it because I was told a few years before that if I didn't have the holy Spirit I wasn't saved. My faith was pretty shaky at the time and I really didn't need to hear that. I know now that there is no truth in that lie. But I wish I had of known that then.

Though discouraged about this whole infilling and not having any of it go the way I thought it would go. I told my Pastor who instructed me to just allow the Lord to grow in me and see what happens. He also encouraged me to speak in tongues in the prayer meetings and at home, regardless if I thought it wasn't like the older saints. After some time had passed I noticed that while I was speaking in tongues in my prayer time that it was taking shape and form. It grew bolder and seemed to be more authoritative as if I was speaking to someone. Oh sure to the outsider it still sounded like pure gibberish, but to me it's all God.

Andie, I encourage you to do the opposite of what I did. I walked in fear. I was scared to death because someone told me that I wasn't saved if I didn't have the Holy Spirit. In saying that though, it is a normal practice that when we repent and turn away from our old way of doing things that it was normal to receive the Holy Spirit as prescribed in the book of Acts. Everyone should seek to be filled and afterward be continually filled. For the New Testament Church it was apart of the normal procedure for all those that have repented.

It's Protocol!

 2011/1/24 9:45









 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit



Hi Andie,

Some people make a clear distinction between receiving the spirit of adoption whereby we cry 'Father', and, 'the baptism' in the Spirit, making the latter a special anointing for service, as it appeared to be for Jesus. These two separate experiences are the testimony of some brethren.

So, if one takes the picture which birth gives, of being plunged into the spirit (air) and the air (spirit) coming into us, then the baptism also produces the cry and the power, while yet being very immature, inexperienced, unproven, unknowledgeable (of doctrine), untaught (and so on). There is also biblical precedent for this:

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Speaking of Paul, Peter said:

As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16


I would encourage you to hold on to the knowledge that you've been born again, and read scripture around the relationship Jesus had with His Father, and which God seeks with His children, often pre-figured in Old Testament relationships. There are many pictures in those sons, of aspects of Christ's ministry which single-handedly He achieved or experienced, which as sons of God we may find ourselves having to identify with, to be like Him.


I was thinking yesterday about the reason I did not speak in tongues immediately. I think it was because I was singing in my spirit for at least two days.

Love of Christ so freely given.
Grace of God beyond degree,
Mercy higher than the heaven,
Deeper then the deepest sea.

What a wonderful redemption!
Never can a mortal know
How my sin, tho’ red like crimson,
Can be whiter than the snow.

I don't remember singing the chorus at all.

(All that thrills my soul is Jesus;
He is more than life to me;
And the fairest of ten thousand,
In my blessed Lord I see.)


And occasionally I sang the next verse. (I'll post the whole thing in the praise thread.)

Every need His hand supplying,
Every good in Him I see;
On His strength divine relying,
He is all in all to me.


Those words expressed something I could not have figured out to say or sing. It was as if they came from somewhere deep down inside which someone else had known how to frame.

Later, I came to understand the necessity of being able to say Amen all the way through Romans 6, but for some years I tried to live 'in the Spirit' while unconsicously skipping over the part about having died in Christ to my own desires and sin.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Carter Conlon's sermon at Times Square Church yesterday was apposite to all this (and more): Why is God's Strength Made Perfect in Our Weakness?

 2011/1/24 10:08
knitefall
Member



Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 253


 Re:

as an encouragement to our viewers, I will input thoughts concerning the Baptism. My purpose is to be a helper in the Faith. I am not willing to argue.

Approved, my thoughts exactly. Also, we know Paul spoke more than all of them in tongues. So, yes, %100 of those baptized speak in tongues.



luke 24:49 is a 2nd work of Grace. The key is Grace- we do not deserve this anyhow but our Lord IS Love so it's not like He has to muster it up. It's a natural flow that makes perfect sense to Him.

now the full benefits of the new Cov't come in at Acts 2:1-4

Who can receive the Holy Ghost? John 7:37-39 says any who believe

Peter knew he was living in the last days... of the Old Cov't. And God came and "blew" it away and now at that last day, the Spirit can legally permanently reside in us.

matt 27:52 has the Spirit legally residing in them. What Power? why would you fight against the Holy Ghost when He only wants to Power you?

luke 24:13-15 they still did not understand to not look for a physical Jesus. It wasn't until Acts that they were able to have their eyes opened to understand.

The Spirit Powers us to be a witness in lifestyle, our verbal walk and in supernatural ways.

It's NOT normal to NOT have the Baptism of the Spirit in the book of Acts.

what about those who say it stopped? consider these:

Malachi 3:6 - Lord does not change

Joel 2:27, 28 all flesh, not some for the first few years...

Acts 2:38, 39 in verse 39 we see that this continues for generations by the word "children"

Heb 13:8 Nor does He change His mind about New Cov't things in the N/T

our wonderful fiends who take the Scripture 1Cor 13:9, take it but they take it out of context!

Prophecy and Knowledge will be disregarded. Jesus is Perfect. BUT, Jesus had not come back yet! Yeah! So we still hear preaching and we still hear words from our Lord! I am glad I will not be Comfortless while I wait for Him to come.

there are two categories:

"I don't know"
"I don't want"

The initial physical evidence is the 1st visible proof.

it is recorded that they both heard and spoke languages they never heard.

I could also tell stories of how missionaries ended up speaking the local language and beautifully at that! I think that is God's heart.

I realize that there have been many who hijacked the doctrine and end up making it something it was never intended to be. Really, who would want to be a part of rolling around on the floor, trying to show God how holy you are? It's plain dumb. What can you offer God?

there is no IPE with Salvation. There is when the Baptism w/ speaking in tongues. Nothing to be afraid of.

The conclusion is that these are two different events. And they can happen one right after the other.

Why did God choose to include tongues?

Because according to James, it is the hardest member to control. So now the unruly member that the devil used is now used to Glorify God.

Acts 2:7-11 is speaking the wonderful works of God.

Rev 4:8, 10; 5:9 we know they will not be speaking english... so we can call this tongues! And what are they doing? SAYING praises to God.

unfortunately, Is 28:11 and 12 is actually speaking concerning a near judgment. So I will not use that out of context.

1cor 14:21, 22 validate tongues in the N/T

Jude 20 you build up in the Most Holy Faith

1cor 14:4 don't you want to be edified?

john 16:13 guides us as what to speak

1Cor 14:15 with understanding and in the Spirit(w/o understanding) -if you do not know what you're speaking, how can you doubt?

So another purpose is to help us pray in perfect Faith. If you knew what you were asking for, you could and probably would doubt. You might be praying for a million dollars and not know it!

is Eph 6:18 speaking about praying in the Spirit(tongues) or with words of men? -anyway, it's for ALL Saints to use to lift one another up with.

rom 8:26, 27 is the Spirit praying through us. How better to pray than to have God Himself glorifying His own Name and Works?


now that I have placed several Scriptures in your path about how and purpose, can someone prove to SI that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the first visible proof of speaking in another language, is no longer for today?

 2011/1/24 10:13Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Andie72

Quote:
andie72 wrote:
One more thing, it is said if you don't have the spirit you are not of Christ. I believe, is it possible to have the spirit without the full baptism.


Amen, sister! He (the Spirit) is with you (and every born again child of God), but He shall be in you (John 14.17), if you ask Him to come and abide in every fiber of your being! There are many people who’ve never asked and they still haven’t experienced because of what they’ve been taught.

Whatever a person desires from the Lord, they first must have faith that they will receive FROM THE LORD. In threads like this, one can see a lot of fear in even asking God – they list all the crazies out there speaking in tongues and prophesying like banshees; but imho, it comes down to faith in God – asking Him for bread and believing you will receive bread and not a stone (Matt 7.9, Luke 11.11). Just my two cents.

Quote:
andie72 wrote:
When you have received this baptism, do you definately KNOW you have received it? What do you feel? Does the feeling last?


It’s not a feeling like the world gives; it’s not like smoking pot or drinking and you know when you are sober again. It truly is joy unspeakable! And yes, it goes away but not away – away!! In my experience when I return for a fill-up (secret prayer closet), He is there – again and again and again and again and again!

Now, about “do you know if you have received?” I’ve not done scientific research to back this up but I’ve personally not met anyone who was baptized in the Holy Ghost (Spirit) and not known what happened to them. (huge friendly grin) God did not sneak up on them and give it to them without their knowing!!

This truly is something that you will hunger and thirst for; how I explain to others here in America is that you can work for an employer who pays pretty good but offers no benefits or you can work for the employer who has great pay AND fringe benefits! It really is your choice. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the ultimate fringe benefit of walking with God... but like you said it is “possible to have the Spirit without the full baptism.” It is your choice!!

God bless you!!
Lisa

Not to Andie....
PS: Please people, do not find fault with my analogies. If something aggravates you, take it to the Lord in prayer. Give me the respect that I give you if you don’t like or agree with what I’ve written. God bless you.


_________________
Lisa

 2011/1/24 11:32Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Let us not indulge in 'foolish arguments'.

Food for thought aka 5001 principles for speaking in tongues (i might not actually be joking)

1. All may speak , but all do not speak in tongues
Acts 2:4
*All* of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
[All these folks were filled and spoke with tongues]

1 Corinthians 12:30 (King James Version)

30 Have *all* the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[The answer is obviously no all people do not speak in tongues. But this doesn't mean they all cant if they wanted to. God does not withhold any good thing from his servants]

2. Authentic non-psychosomatic charisma is normally accompanied by a diversity of gifts. focus on singular gifts is erroneous and the tell-tale sign of fleshly unctions or a lack of love. see 1 Cor chapter 13

3. The holy spirit is able to give unction to those with the tongues to pray in the spirit (one form of prayer in the spirit), but is he not also able to intercede on our behalf without tongues?

3b. is having tongues are prerequisite of the spirit interceding on our behalf? [If you are born again the Holy Spirit will intercede on your behalf whether you have tongues or not. If not how is it possible for all Christians to pray in the spirit always if all Christians dont as the bible says always speak in tongues]

4. Tongues has two context. Corporate worship and private worship. Both can be subject to interpretation in a corporate setting. Be wary of mass psychosomatic hysteria. No interpretation is a warning sign.

5. What is the major ministry of the holy spirit in our lives? For argument sake lets say it is to convict us of sin, righteousness and of judgment? What would then be the evidence of an indwelling spirit? freedom from sin evidenced by a genuine repentance from sin or babbling meaningless syllables that are not even holy spirit inspired?

6. Are we reading ourselves into scripture and interpreting promises made to the corporate body? e.g. "and these signs will follow those who believe...." Can we?

7. What did Jesus or the apostles say was the "evidence" of an indwelling spirit? Was tongues ever referenced as a attribute of a spirit filled person?



stay bless

 2011/1/24 12:09Profile
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

Jesus commanded His disciples to tarry in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit.

...he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: Acts 1:4

This is not optional in the Believer's life.

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not an end in itself. It is only the doorway, the beginning to the deeper life. It is given because we need power to be witnesses (bold). And to be bold witnesses, you need to be free from the fear of man. You need to be free from the control and influence of man. You can see Peter before and after His Baptism.

It is given for power to carry your cross when all turn against you. This is being a witness.

It is given so that you will be a witness as your Lord was a witness.

Joh 1:7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.

Are you a witness of the Light?

You are not the Light, you are only a witness. Same as John the Baptist was a witness.

Joh 1:8 He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light.

Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that which we know, and bear witness of that which we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

When you speak what you know and have "seen" don't be surprised when you are not received.

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Are you decreasing? The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is given that you may have power to decrease. You cannot decrease without it. You will build religious structures to yourself and not even know it, thinking that you are increasing Jesus, yet you are really increasing yourself.
Look around today and see what I mean.

Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Yes, of the earth he speaketh and many speak today.

Joh 3:32 What he hath seen and heard, of that he beareth witness; and no man receiveth his witness.

No man receiveth His witness.

Joh 3:33 He that hath received his witness hath set his seal to this, that God is true.

Yes, that God is true. That means there is no fear of man or devil in your life.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure.

Has God sent you? If you have been sent, you are speaking the words of God and not man. Who are you honoring?

So, first and foremost you receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit to be witnesses. The emphasis today is on gifts. Isn't Satan clever? Go and study what being a witness means.

It does not mean handing out tracts. What it means is total death to self and ambition and pride. Then you decrease. It means being crucified by religious people and honoring God all along the way. That's POWER! To please God and not man. POWER to be a Godpleaser and not a Manpleaser.

Are you His witness? No other question is important. Because if you are not His witness, you are spinning your wheels in life and His presence is not going with you.

The clock is ticking....



 2011/1/24 12:19Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit

This is a very good book...


Pentecostal papers: or, The gift of the Holy Ghost

Samuel Ashton Keen - 1895 - 190 pages

http://books.google.com/books?id=-wc3AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=pentecostal+papers&hl=
en&ei=wbU9TbefMoL78AbR4cSbCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result
&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
(I really dislike WIDE si pages from links, so please remove the "enter" spaces from the end of lines 2 and 3)

He is Methodist and the focus of his book is the baptism of the Holy Ghost; his focus is NOT on any of the gifts of the Spirit. He DOES speak of another baptism. I would say that even someone who does not believe in speaking in tongues would enjoy reading this book!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/1/24 12:27Profile









 Re:

Urbanus writes.........

"Yes, that God is true. That means there is no fear of man or devil in your life."

This is the mark of the religious man. He fears man and he promotes men. His talk will not be about Jesus and his passionate love for Him, his intimacy with Him, it will be about men and their ministries. He will constantly promote men and build men up, the Spirit filled believer will always point to Jesus. The Spirit filled man is ruined for this life..........brother Frank

 2011/1/24 12:45
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

Another mark of a spirit-filled person is that he lets the Word adjust him, instead of adjusting the Word. Because he fears God he gets in line with what God has to say and does not argue with Him or water His Word down.


 2011/1/24 14:31Profile





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