| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
and, if later they feel the need of another operation of His Spirit to endue them with power, then God is pleased to bless them with it on a 'no fault' basis.
What do you mean by "if later they feel the need of another operation of his Spirit?" When it is essential according to Paul when addressing the brethren coming out of Ephesus in Acts 19 by what baptism they were baptized of and if they heard about the Holy Ghost.
Who talks like that today?
Paul asked them if they received the Holy Spirit since they became believers. To Paul it's not an "if", or whenever "you feel like it". When they heard about this Holy Spirit they didn't think about it and say, "Well Paul, we'll think about it and get back to you". No, when their theology was corrected they immediately were baptized and Paul having laid his hands on them received the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit baptism IS essentially very much apart of the gospel, not an "if, I need it". |
|  2011/1/21 18:22 | | Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | We didn't have Him, we needed Him, we cannot get Him, only those to whom the Father sends Him can we be born again. New birth, Incorruptable Seed of our Father to give new life to those whom the Father sends, Jesus Christ, we a new creature that the world never saw until after He, Jesus Christ is birthed in believers, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".
He it is that will baptize with and into the Holy Spirit.
The born again have Him, the Son and by Him the Holy Spirit.
His life is our life, we must put Him on, thus taking the Holy Spirit of Promise and stiring up the fire that has been put in us. Unstired coals go out, the fire gets higher when the coals are stired up, as we are to stirup the Holy Spirit that is in us.
He baptizes;
Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Lu 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:31-33 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
If we have Him, put Him on;
Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Paul is stiring the coals that keep the fire of the Holy Spirit burning in our hearts, let us stir up the fire that Jesus Christ may be seen in us and the World may know that the Father has sent Him.
In Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
|
| | 2011/1/21 20:55 | Profile | Earendel
Member
Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada
| | Re: | | Quote:
by Renoncer on 2011/1/21 6:25:29
"You must also look at the context theologically.
Why not just take the bible at face value for what it says?
Okay, let's try this from a different version...
Acts 8:14-17 (New International Version, ©2010)
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God,
(Obviously the Apostles knew that the gospel was not preached to them until AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ and that they accepted it)
they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the {{{new}}} believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit {{{had not yet come on any of them}}}; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(You see they were [[[NEW]]] believers and repented,accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ and were baptized in Jesus name(not John's baptism) and yet the giving of the Holy Spirit was separate from this.
and what happens next?...
...well, read it====>
17 (((Then))) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
There you have it, they received the Holy Ghost (((AFTER))) they were converted to Christianity and (((AFTER))) they were baptized in water in Jesus name. Conversion and acceptance of the gospel was (((NOT))) the receiving of the Holy Ghost, and neither is water baptism.
Case closed!
Now answer my question...
Are you a cessationist? And don't skirt the issue, just answer it. Yes or No.
_________________
David
|
| | 2011/1/21 22:15 | Profile | operaman
Member
Joined: 2009/7/2
Posts: 1
| | Re: | | I was kneeling at bed praying not asking for Holy Spirit and it came upon me. I really didnt do anything with the baptism until later on in life when I got real close to the Lord. Now I understand most of the gifts as I am sensitive to Holy Spirit. He has given me opportunities to use my gifts. Gifts that I didn't know I had. so you can receive the Holy spirit and not do anything with it |
| | 2011/1/21 22:18 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
Are you a cessationist? And don't skirt the issue, just answer it. Yes or No.
You are reminded to play the ball and not the man. No one is in a position to demand an answer from anyone. This is not an inquisition.
_________________
Paul Frederick West
|
| | 2011/1/21 22:33 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Welcome Operaman. I take it that you have an operatic voice? If yes, we share a common talent.
Quote:
you can receive the Holy Spirit and not do anything with it
Sadly this is true. |
| | 2011/1/21 22:34 | | Earendel
Member
Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada
| | Re: | | Quote:
by PaulWest on 2011/1/21 17:33:09
Quote:
Are you a cessationist? And don't skirt the issue, just answer it. Yes or No.
You are reminded to play the ball and not the man. No one is in a position to demand an answer from anyone. This is not an inquisition.
Point taken, but the question is one that is very important to me, and I respectfully ask the question.
1 Peter 3:15
_________________
David
|
| | 2011/1/21 22:43 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
You are reminded to play the ball and not the man. No one is in a position to demand an answer from anyone. This is not an inquisition.
Brother Admin Paul West is right.
I am enjoying the dialogue in this thread, why get all heated over who believes what? To what end would it serve to know what each poster believes? Most everyone here have the basic fundamental foundational truths of the gospel.
There are lots of cessationist's, are we going to change their minds? Probably not, and they will not change ours, so why bother with the question?
Both agree that Jesus is both Lord and Saviour of our soul and both believe in justification and sanctification. There may be different wordings in the document of our creeds, but basically we believe the same thing.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but I have brethren that do not. I don't condemn them for their belief, neither will I shun them. But I have found there is also no sense in talking about it. But you know I can talk about the power of God and the gifts of the Spirit to those brethren and they have a respect for what I believe, even though they don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit are for today. I am not looking to win them over, nor will I grill them with twenty questions. I have found there is simply no sense in going that way. The power of God can do more convincing then what my mouth can do. |
| | 2011/1/21 22:56 | | mguldner
Member
Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas
| | Re: | | I believe in the operation of the gifts BUT I don't believe this should ever be the focus nor evidence of Baptism. I believe the Baptism is an immersion in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit ultimately is the very essense of God, which I see two main things Holiness and Love. So the Baptism is primarily One of Holiness and Love without these its not much of a move of God whether people are speaking in tongues, being healed, etc etc.
I am one that takes this stance because I grew up in a Pentecostal atmosphere where the gifts of the Spirit were large twisted and overemphasised while true biblical evidence is ignore ie the Fruit of the Spirit.
_________________
Matthew Guldner
|
| | 2011/1/21 23:12 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
Point taken, but the question is one that is very important to me, and I respectfully ask the question.
I understand. Asking pointed questions in this forum is a little bit different than asking them in person, face-to-face. If you're not careful with the wording, they can be interepreted as baited, or too abrupt, or give the impression that you're looking for a confrontation. Please keep this in mind.
This can almost always be avoided if we remember to remain humble and just accept the fact that others do not see things the way see them. This may be due to a number of factors, such as denominationalism, maturity level, etc. If you sense someone wants to debate you or prove you wrong, be the stronger believer and humbly conclude your portion of the discussion and just walk away. If you are correct, God will vindicate your words and use them to impact someone behind the scenes. But the one way to kill a discussion and make sure nobody is blessed is to seek out a confrontation to prove your stance is right and the other person is wrong.
Blessings to you
_________________
Paul Frederick West
|
| | 2011/1/21 23:38 | Profile |
|
