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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism of the Holy Spirit

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RainMan
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Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Quote:
Of course we are not to take these verses to spiritually abuse people. It is hard to correct someone that you are not in relationship with and to be fair, it is equally hard to receive correction from a stranger. That's probably why it says, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, rather than stranger".



I partially agree. There is spiritual abuse of people and even worse a spiritual abuse of scripture. But my contribution will be to remove the log of wood from my own eye that i may see clearly [no innuendo here just straight talk making things. I am simply using the word introspectively and sharing the results.


1.When we correct someone we dont know harshly or we are not able to receive admonition its a sign of pride and a need for increased walk in love (something we must let the spirit work on)

2. A completely humble, contrite and broken heart will recognize the voice of the lord be it written, prophetic or even through a stranger (was Philip not used as a stranger to expound upon the word to the Ethiopian? did jesus not speak to the lady at the well?) in fact relating back to the topic of this thread prophesy is very important in ministering to both believers and unbelievers. witnessing as christ spoke it "mar'toos" (by implication martyrdom) means we must indeed die. This unwillingnes to die to self means we can not mar'toos (witness). Mar'toos is not limited to verbal communication of the gospel. We communicate the gospel by how we relate to one another also.


3. When it comes to rebuking, correcting doctrine or restoring a brother who has fallen in sin the issue we should ask is ,"where does this unction originate from"
i have read things on threads or speaking to people in the flesh i wanted to respond to yet the spirit said no [flesh vs spirit what a struggle]. The key is where the unction comes from and the love by which we operate in. Does the word "dwell in us richly" as we rebuke, admonish and encourage or has this commission been substituted with a subjective interpretion of God that is a man made ideology

4. A carnal xtian(if such a person technically exists) lives in the realm of their emotions and will and not the spirit(i site corinth as such an example).If care is not taken they soon become unable to distinguish the spirit from thier own flesh. A tale tell sign of crnality is not alwas ovious sin.

a Few signs of carnal nature

Self gratification
Self Righteousness
Self importance
Self Ambition
Self worship
Self reliance (pride and subtle rebellion to God)
[others may indeed have more to add]

Relationship
I address this becauce cultivation of 'relationships' is at the heart of seeker-friendly assemblies. Instead of preaching christ crucified to a world that desperately needs a saviour we are told to cultivate relationships so we can "love them in". When peter preached his sermon (with intelligible words) he didnt hold back and make it more seeker friendly and less offensive. The apostles preached the gospel undilluted thats why im convinced they had the power they did. The gospel is a rock of offense. When we try to make the gospel more effective we lose all the power that comes with it.

As brethren when we walk in the love of God our relation to ourselves and mankind is automatically much better. But we must do things as the bible says we should not as a diluted seeker-friendly politically correct social gospel dictates.


Sanctification
Jesus prayed the father to sanctify us with is word. The refiners fire is not a pleasant or seeker-friendly. The "fire" as todd bentley or howard browne would have you believe is not primarily to make you laugh and lose self control and perform WWE wrestling manuevers on old ladies (how wicked is this "The holy spirit said i should kick her in the face") Walking in his fire is synonymous with a life time of long-suffering and sacrifice for him. "Your best life now" is demonically inspired and not of God.

To a carnal christian the things of God must gratify, please, make them happy, further ambition,make the feel important



Conclusion

Lets obey the explicit commandments of God as they apply to us as a NT church and let us first do so introspectively. Lets walk in love in how we relate. Lets develop a spirit of humility by which have teachable spirits.

 2011/1/30 5:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What's this? He demolished the Apostle Paul's theology.

When you read what she said right after she said that you get a clearer picture. I'll quote her.
Quote:
It is called a personal encounter with the Holy Spirit

It's when Paul armed with all the knowledge that he was walking in met Jesus on the way to Damascus to have his 'theology' demolished if you will, or corrected.

This I am sure is what Blandina is referring to.

 2011/1/30 7:41
knitefall
Member



Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 253


 holy Ghost

I am almost sure this is to mean that before the Divine Meeting on the road, Saul thought he had it all figured out. The Spirit has a way of showing us that we do not. Thank you.

 2011/1/30 9:17Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re: holy Ghost

If this is what blandina meant, thank you for the clarification, Yes Paul was way off when it came to Jesus Christ before he met Him. So was I, Vondonican, out of body experience and stuff that was way out there, Jesus gave me revelation of Himself in me, by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father. What shaking it was, I can see where Paul came from and where the Holy Spirit took him. I thought I was doing the work of God also. I guess that is why I am so protective of Pauls Gospel. "Christ in you the hope of Glory, a real person in me that changes lives and brings us to the Father, now a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Thank you;

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/1/30 12:22Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

It only took 3 years in Arabia for Paul for the revelation of Christ in Him. It only took 30 years for me. Bull headed? Ya think?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/1/30 12:31Profile
knitefall
Member



Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 253


 Re:

Amen, I'm there with you. This thing really does work by Revelation. Because the flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. That's what Jesus meant. Us knuckle heads have to hear the Faith and Grace message aver and over. Praise God He is not angry anymore!

 2011/1/30 13:20Profile
restinhim
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 30


 Re:

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Amazing that God would reveal these things to everyday "nobodies"!

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

 2011/1/30 20:08Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re: Acts 2 Reloaded (a less subjective view)

5Now there were then residing in Jerusalem Jews, devout and God-fearing men from every country under heaven.

6And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together and they were astonished and bewildered, because each one heard them [the apostles] speaking in his own [particular] dialect.

7And they were beside themselves with amazement, saying, Are not all these who are talking Galileans?

8Then how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own (particular) dialect to which we were born?

9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and [the province of] Asia,

10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and the transient residents from Rome, both Jews and the proselytes [to Judaism from other religions],

11Cretans and Arabians too--we all hear them speaking in our own native tongues [and telling of] the mighty works of God!

12And all were beside themselves with amazement and were puzzled and bewildered, saying one to another, what can this mean?
13But others made a joke of it and derisively said, they are simply drunk and full of sweet [intoxicating] wine.



Review
1. 120 are gathered together in one accord waiting for the promise. A loud audible sound is heard from the heavens and tongues of fire settle on all these people individually.
2. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues
3. Jews from all over the world that was staying in Jerusalem for Pentecost heard the loud violent sound from heaven and all rush out to see what it was.
4. They heard the apostles speak in their own native tongue/dialect and were amazed.
5. They heard the wondrous works of God but didn’t know what it meant.
6. The Jews mockingly suggested that what they were witnessing was induced by alcohol.
7. Whilst the apostles spoke in tongues they hadn’t heard or understood the gospel(they only mocked the tongues).
8. Up until this point the apostles did not address the Jews directly they were simply speaking in tongues and declaring the works of God(of which could have included Christ). The inspired utterance at this point was tongues.
9. Up until this point there is no rational dialogue as such.

Continued.....
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, raised his voice and addressed them: You Jews and all you residents of Jerusalem, let this be [explained] to you so that you will know and understand; listen closely to what I have to say.

15For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, for it is [only] the third hour (about 9:00 a.m.) of the day;

16But [instead] this is [the beginning of] what was spoken through the prophet Joel:

Review
1. Peter Gets up and raises his voice (for-nay) to address the Jews. At this point his speech is not spirit inspired tongues but spirit inspired preaching and expounding of the word (another one of the gifts)
2. Peter we can infer peter was in the spirit but the Greek word fo-nay' (to address /articulate / voice implies rational speech inspired of the holy spirit as opposed to inspired speaking in tongues.
3. When peter got up to address them whilst he was in the spirit he spoke intelligible words inspired of the spirit (this is another gift required for witnessing)
4. He expounded upon the prophesy of Joel in detail.


Continued........
37Now when they heard this they were stung (cut) to the heart, and they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles (special messengers), Brethren, what shall we do?

38And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39For the promise [of the Holy Spirit] is to and for you and your children, and to and for all that are far away, [even] to and for as many as the Lord our God invites and bids to come to Himself.(E)

40And [Peter] [i]solemnly and earnestly witnessed (testified) and admonished (exhorted) with much more continuous speaking and warned (reproved, advised, encouraged) them, saying, be saved from this crooked (perverse, wicked, unjust) generation.

41Therefore those who accepted and welcomed his message were baptized, and there were added that day about 3,000 souls.

42And they steadfastly persevered, devoting themselves constantly to the instruction and fellowship of the apostles, to the breaking of bread [including the Lord's Supper] and prayers.


Review
1. When they heard the message of peter they were stunned. And all asked what they must do.
2. Peters reply was
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
3. Verse 40 WITH MANY OTHER LOGOS
*40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.*
4. Peter's preaching was an inspired expounding upon the logos for the purpose of revealing Christ. He didn’t 'preach in tongues' as mystical as that sounds that wasn’t the case.


Conclusion
When reading Acts 2 for years I didn’t see the events as stated in the bible only the romantic version of hyper Pentecostalism. I was taught strangers from all over the world came to Jerusalem and on the day of Pentecost heard the gospel preached but this is not what the bible says. Yes indeed they heard the wondrous works of God declared in their own language, but their response was to mock the apostles. Nobody was brought to the knowledge of Christ because they heard God praised in there own dialect/language. Peter gets up and addresses them inspired by the Holy Spirit to expound upon the logos and bring these people to repentance. A supernatural sound brought the Jews out of their houses, men speaking in tongues grabbed their attention , but it was the holy spirit exposition of the word (Joel and later we are told many more logos) that saved the 3000.
What I am driving at is this it took more than one gift to effectively minister and bring 3000 folk to repentance tongues grabbed their attention but it was the prophetic inspired utterance that brought them to repentance. Tongues is only one gift of many needed for witnessing. The church is Christ embassy and he has given many gufts to enable his embassadors fulfil the kingdom mandate.

(witness=mar'toos)


Extra Note

dialektos
dee-al'-ek-tos
From G1256; a (mode of) discourse, that is, “dialect”: - language, tongue.

the greek word dialektos was often translated dialect, tongue or language and is different from glossa. The implication being controvertially i might add was that on pentecost the 120 received the gifts of languages (dialektos). The ability to speak in other intelligible languages is the gift of languages (this is usually a corporate manifestation) but the gift of tongues (gloce'-sah) is private and intended for communion and prayer to God thats why its a heavenly language. gloce'-sah

There is a distinction between

The gift of dialektos (dialects or languages)
The gift of gloce'-sah (unknown tongues)

dialektos
gloce'-sah requires interpretation while dialektos does not as people will hear there own language as that is what you will be speaking. if dialektos is used to preach a message (in tongues) then by implication the person witnessing must be able to understand the dialektos(supernatural interpretation) as people will ask questions. If peter preached in dialektos he had to understand when he was spoken back to as evidenced in Acts 2 "they asked him what they must do", "He replied". So if peter didnt speak in a common language to all assembled if he did preach in dialektos he understood in dialektos also. This means we cant babble gibberish and say we are witnessing as you cant witness to someone if you cant understand the questions they ask you.

gloce'-sah
This is the tongues of prayer language and doesnt come with interpretation by default. This was the tongues paul addressed in Corinthians. A stranger would not be confused if he walked into an assembly and heard the apostles in dialektos as this would be his native tongue, so what went on in corinth was not dialektos as on pentecost. The issue in corinth was not dialektos it was glossa. The purpose of dialektos was to spread the gospel the purpose of glossa is worship and communion. On the day of pentecost the gospel was spread to every major ethnos (nation/ethnicity).

Only an authentic gift of dialektos can be used to spread the gospel to people we cannot communicate with. What is widespread in church 98% of the time is glossa and not dialektos. I have heard of people today still hearing wonderous works of God in their own dialects but i am yet to meet anyone with a demonstrable gift of dialektos (divine ability to communicate Gods word in any language, being able to also respond to unbelievers questions in that same foreign tongue)



Tongues are one of many gifts given for witnessing. Tongues are a sign. There are two context for tongues both corporate and private.

Quote:
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 2011/1/31 5:36Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Speaking in tongues


I must say like Paul said, “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:” (1 Cor 14.18).

If those of you (who do not speak in tongues) are content in your walk with God... praise His holy name! I don’t think any less of you. I am content in my walk with God speaking and praying in tongues... praise God for the gift(s)! I hope you can honestly say that you don’t think any less of me.

God bless us all,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2011/1/31 11:14Profile
Joyful_Heart
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Joined: 2009/12/8
Posts: 1795


 Re:

There are so much to pray about and for in these times.

I began to pray for some the other day and was overwhelmed. Then I said, what am I doing? This is too much for me - why aren't you praying in tongues I asked myself. The Bible says to pray in your mind when we pray in tongues. So we are not just making noise but we are aware in our minds what we are praying about. This way I am praying what God wants and not what I want.

I rarely pray in tongues in public and if I do it is quiet. It is for me to praise God and to pray to God with.

I would suggest everyone ask to pray in tongues. You wont be sorry you did! I began asking God for Truth before I ever knew Him. No matter what it was! I didn't care as long as it was the Truth. He loves it when our hearts are open to the Truth and seek it. He will surely give to those who ask. He did for me. He will for you! Glory to God

1Cr 14:2 For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

1Cr 14:4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church. Amen

 2011/1/31 11:48Profile





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