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Faith1
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Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re: Is the Sabbath what God wants us to obey?

Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJV
(13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Do we love God, do we follow Jesus?

John 8:28-29 KJV
(28) Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
(29) And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.


John 14:20-21 KJV
(20) At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


The commandments of God are the same commandments Jesus refers to. God and Jesus are one, they always agree. Would you really believe that Jesus does not agree with the commandments that God wrote with his own finer? Would you really believe that the only commandment that starts with the word ‘remember’ is to be forgotten?

For me this is not about church doctrine, nor is it about denominations, it is about obeying God. I can find nothing in the 10 commandment to reject, the law is perfect. I keep the law because God wrote it on my heart and I love Him, it has nothing to do with works.

Psalms 19:7-8 KJV
(7) The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
(8) The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

 2011/1/25 20:43Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Faith1...

Quote:

For me this is not about church doctrine, nor is it about denominations, it is about obeying God. I can find nothing in the 10 commandment to reject, the law is perfect. I KEEP THE LAW because God wrote it on my heart and I love Him, it has nothing to do with works.



I have a feeling that you need just as much grace as the rest of us. Only One actually kept the entire law...and He was divine.

Now, let me ask you a question:

Do you believe that someone who does NOT practice a strict Old Covenant view of the Sabbath is really a true believer?

Thanks,
-Chris


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Christopher

 2011/1/25 22:14Profile
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Joined: 2011/1/21
Posts: 21


 Israel

Hello Brother!
A definition of Israel:Israel - which we get from the Greek, is originally in the Hebrew, "Yisrael".
Yisrael means, quite literally, "He has striven with God," or "He has been saved by God," based on which translation of "sra" was meant to be used.
At the moment Christ died on the Cross, the curtain in the Temple was ripped from top to bottom. At that moment, all Jews could look into it and see God was no longer there.
In the instructions given to Moses regarding the sanctuary, it is clear that only Aaron and his sons were to be in the sanctuary and even they could die if instructions were not obeyed.
Exo 28:35 And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.
I'm sure we all agree that Jesus was crucified by the Jews. (with trumped up charges) God tore the curtain to signify that from that moment on, the Jews were no longer the favoured of God.
Today, most jews deny that Jesus was anything more than a man. As a nation, they are lost, because without faith it is impossible to please God. Individual jews and of course gentiles are given the same opportunity to come to Jesus and be saved.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Israel of God are not necessarily jews. Remember the definition of the word. But the nation that denies Christ is also denied by Christ.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
It is easy to get confused on this point because of the numerous references to Israel. God tells us Come let us reason together. Ask yourself, if you were God the Father and your favoured people deny Christ and crucify him, would you be pleased with them? Would you still favour them? The name Israel applies to believers in Christ, whatever ethnic background they have is of no revelance. When God gave the name Israel to Jacob, Israel as a nation did not even exist.
Thankyou for an excellent thought provoking question.

 2011/1/26 1:55Profile
Faith1
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Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re:

Chris, let me ask you a question, do you really believe people who do not obey God will be in heaven? We are all saved by Grace, but grace does not give us licence to disobey God.

The Sabbath existed at the beginning of creation. The law given to Moses reads as follows:

Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
(8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God said to remeber because it already existed. Sabbath is not ceremonial, nor old or outdated. It was given to Adam and Eve before sin ever existed and will still be here when sin no longer exists.

Genesis 2:1-4 KJV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
(3) And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
(4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,





 2011/1/26 21:14Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Faith1

Quote:

Chris, let me ask you a question, do you really believe people who do not obey God will be in heaven? We are all saved by Grace, but grace does not give us licence to disobey God.



I will try to answer your question after you answer the question that I have already asked:

Do you believe that someone who does NOT practice a strict Old Covenant view of the Sabbath is really a true believer?

Thanks,
-Chris


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Christopher

 2011/1/26 21:23Profile
A-Run
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Joined: 2008/9/8
Posts: 56
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 Re:

Quote:
I keep the law because God wrote it on my heart and I love Him, it has nothing to do with works.



Hello Brother- I dont think even the Apostle Paul could say that he could keep the law.
But, I am not sure whether you really mean it.
ACTS 15: 9-Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?


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Arun

 2011/1/27 0:46Profile
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Joined: 2011/1/21
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 Re:

I'm new here but are questions answered with another question?

Quote:"I will try to answer your question after you answer the question that I have already asked:

Do you believe that someone who does NOT practice a strict Old Covenant view of the Sabbath is really a true believer?"
This is not a simple yes or no question.

I'm happy to give the answer.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Note:Not the whole verse)
- Who lives? Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
- Who says all this? Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Here Jesus tells us He is the one in the scriptures.
What scriptures? The New Testament wasn't written yet.
I realize that most people miss this verse and its' meaning. That's why it's so easy to misinterpret the Bible If the Old testament-old covenant passed away at the cross, then it only makes sense that there must be a New Testament-New Covenant. But Jesus never said the Old Testament was invalid, as a matter of fact, in John, he tells the opposite: "and they are they which testify of me."
What was the definition of sin again? 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
To recap- The soul that sinneth it shall die.
- Doing lawful and right = life
-sin = transgression of the Law
Now we have all sinned=broken the law. The penalty is still the same. Jesus offers to be our propitiation for our sins. We can say yea or nay. But unfortunately mankind likes to be boss and says I like this law but I don't like that one. So we'll make some new rules.
Does God recognize these new rules?
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Who is the clay?
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
We are all only clay in the hands of The Potter. Grace is how we are saved, not works. It is the gift of God. If Jesus really lives in me, then I will do only what pleases the Father. Jesus says that's all He does.
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Can a person be a believer and be saved? Most emphatically, yes. Will that soul disobey Christ along the path? Probably. Does God excuse those disobediences?
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Clearly, there are times for all of us when we make mistakes, God ignores those honest errors. But as I study, the Word will rapidly show me the truth if I really want it. "Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
At that point, the thing becomes sin because now I know. Am I still under the Grace of God and saved if I knowingly break the Law? Didn't Christ come to earth as a propitiation for my sins. Now in gratitude for this sacrifice, I do what I want, not what Jesus says He does.
I'm sad that so many believers think that God doesn't mean what He says. Will just belief save you? Yes it will. But there are conditions. Remember the devils believe and tremble. Are they also saved?
Jesus must be your Lord, meaning you give 100% of what is you to the Lord. Then He can lead you as one of His sheep and guide you over and past the various temptations we are subject to. How many of us can truly say "not I, But Christ".
May God give everyone the love of the truth and the desire to search for it.
Thankyou for reading.

 2011/1/28 0:46Profile
Faith1
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Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re: Sabbath was made for man

Quote:
Do you believe that someone who does NOT practice a strict Old Covenant view of the Sabbath is really a true believer?



I do not believe in a strict Old Covenant view of the Sabbath. If you are referring to the rules the Priests and Pharisees burdened the people with, that really has nothing to do with God, those were rules made up by men.

I believe that God gave mankind the Sabbath to be a blessing, a time to withdraw from the cares of this life and to draw close to God.

Genesis 2:1-3 KJV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
(3) And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

(Exodus 20:8 KJV) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Now if you want to call not working on the Sabbath day strict and old, I suppose you can, but I call it obeying God.

Deuteronomy 5:12-14 KJV
(12) Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
(13) Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
(14) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, ...


Keeping the Sabbath is a sign that we belong to God and He has changed us.

Ezekiel 20:12 KJV
(12) Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.


God promises a blessing for keeping the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:1-2 KJV
(1) Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
(2) Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

This is not talking about man made rules, but about departing from evil, keeping the Sabbath helps us to do this.


Isaiah 58:13-14 KJV
(13) If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
(14) Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

On the Sabbath, if you turn your foot away from doing your own pleasure and instead honor the Sabbath, call it a delight, honor God, not finding your own pleasure, speaking your own opinions, delight yourself in the Lord, He will bring blessings.

It seems very clear that the Sabbath is a delight which brings blessings and honor, if we spend that time in honor to God and not serving our own selves.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
Matthew 12:8 KJV
(8) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Sabbath was made for us, to bless us, not burden us.
Mark 2:27-28 KJV
(27) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
(28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


In spite of the miracles that Jesus did the Pharisees still refused to believe Jesus was sent from God and tried to condemn him with their burden filled rules regarding the Sabbath.

John 9:14-16 KJV
(14) And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
(15) Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
(16) Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

So, to answer your question again, no I do not believe in a strict old covenant Sabbath.

I do believe in a living GOD whose WORD has the power to save, and those words include the 10 commandments. And the Bible gives us the WORDS that GOD spoke to the people here in Exodus.

Exodus 20:1 KJV
(1) And God spake all these words, saying,

Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
(8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Isaiah 55:11 KJV
(11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So, now it’s your turn.
Do you believe that after you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Saviour that it is ok to break one of these commandments and still go to heaven?

John 8:11 KJV
(11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Romans 6:14-18 KJV
(14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
(18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It always comes down to allegiance, whose side are you on, whom do you obey?

My heart felt desire is to obey God.

Your sister in Christ

 2011/1/28 21:00Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Is Christ our Sabbath? He is the fulfillment of the Law and so are we in Him. Is Christ in us. Is our new birth our new life in Christ? If we set the Sabbath keeping apart from the work of Christ on the Cross, we are taking His sacrafice and shed blood and stepping on the Cross as we walk to the Sabbath. Christ is our Sabbath and we are in Oneness with Him and the Father every day. We don't need a special day to keep God happy with us, He is happy with us more than we will ever know by birthing His Only Begotten Son in us. It is His works that work in us mightily and Christ is the greatest work of all. It is Christ who makes the Sabbath our perfection, for He is the Lord of the Sabbath and the Lord of our lives.

Yes, I will keep the Sabbath, but not on any special day, for it is Him that is our Sabbath and Him that we worship, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Therefore I am dead to any laws or special days or Sabbaths or anything else that takes away from the freedom we have in Christ. If Christ shall set us free, we are free indeed.

The mystery of Christ in us does not set apart our forsaking the assembling of ourselves, even the more as the time gets shorter. Not for the Sabbaths sake but for our Love of the brethren of whom Jesus gave us a New Commandment
Love one another even as I have love you. "and given myself for you". Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, ((((and gave Himself for me.))))

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Hebrews 10:25-29 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Let us not trodden under foot making the Son of God and His shed blood an unholy thing.

He is our Sabbath. He is our life. He is our all in all.

I am sure this is not what Sabbath keeper think they are doing. I only ask that they revaluate their works because it is not our works that please God, it is the works of Him who works in us mightily. He keeps the law perfect in me and He is the only fulfillment of the Law, Making us "as He is in this world so are we" Perfect before the Father by He that is in us.

It is no longer I who live. Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is Jesus Christ in us, it is His Faith imputed to our faith, it is His life reckoned as our life, I could quote scripture more, but it takes a revelation by the Holy Spirit that Christ is now our life. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me, and the life I now live I live by the Faith of the Son of God."

He is our Sabbath, He is our rest, our only Rest.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

This is our Labor; in Christ, He is our Sabbath and He is the only One that keeps it perfect before the Father and we enter the rest He has purchased on the Cross.

Is Christ still keeping the Sabbath? He is now the Lord of the Sabbath in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/1/28 22:10Profile
Faith1
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Posts: 18


 Re: If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17 KJV)

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10 KJV)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5:3 KJV)

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:17 KJV)

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12 KJV)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

 2011/1/28 22:31Profile





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