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HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:


Something you might try is to momentarily set aside what you "know" scripture to say and ask the LORD to show you what He says. Then ask Him to show you how it lines up with Scripture. Sometimes we get caught up in what we "think" and in so doing, we miss the "know." You are obviously very intelligent and sometimes that can get in the way.

 2011/1/23 20:57Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi HeartSong...

Quote:

Something you might try is to momentarily set aside what you "know" scripture to say and ask the LORD to show you what He says. Then ask Him to show you how it lines up with Scripture. Sometimes we get caught up in what we "think" and in so doing, we miss the "know." You are obviously very intelligent and sometimes that can get in the way.



Many of us do this EVERY TIME that we prayerfully study the Scriptures. Regardless of how much I have studied, no matter how much I have prayed, no matter my work for God, no matter my degrees, or regardless of all of the supernatural things that I have seen the Lord do for me -- I am ALWAYS keenly aware of the flawed humanity that we live in on this side of the "glass darkly" of Eternity.

Of course, your advice is good...and should be paramount no matter what our opinion is on any matter.

Still, there are some things for which the Word of God is exceedingly clear on. One of those is in regard to observing certain days as "sacred" (Romans chapter 14; Hebrews 4). Another is how we are not bound to strict adherence to the requirements of the Law of the Old Covenant (Romans 6, 7, 8).

I have no problem with someone who wants to fulfill what they think is a requirement of Sabbath adherence. However, I do have a problem when someone proclaims those as a requirement for being part of a "remnant" of "true believers" or use such adherence as a prerequisite for either ministry or "sustaining" salvation.


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Christopher

 2011/1/23 21:37Profile
seekhymm
Member



Joined: 2009/1/18
Posts: 13
montana

 Re: Day of Worship

Hi everyone,
I would just like to share what the Lord showed me as a young christian,just learning the commandments.I was at a seventh day adventist church for a prophacy meeting,and they had said that working on the sabbath, which is on saterday was concidared as taking the mark of the beast.
well needless to say i was really troubled in my spirit and asked a sister whos life was so godly about the matter.
She being so much like christ pointed me to the lord and said she couldnt answer that for me. I would have to seek the Lord for the answer. I prayed to the Lord and opened my bible next to me with the faith like a child,and the first scripture i read was;mathew 11:28 (come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden,and i will give you rest).
at that moment i knew that he is my rest.(sabbath).i had peace in my heart because our lord has a holy obligation to his children to lead them into all truth. i say that with reverance.I myself seek him every minute, hour and day that i am able to breath.his grace and mercy are new every morning,Praise His Name.
I just read a saying from a old brother who is now with the lord.I thought i would share it.

The law was magnified by christ, and made honourable; and therfore God in His righteousness must magnify for ever christ and his members with him.
Under the law they laboured first,and rested after (exod. xx,8-11); but under the gospel we rest first, by faith in jesus, and then work.
The Law begins with commands and ends with blessings; but the blessings are fruit upon lofty branches, which fallen man can never reach: he cannot and will not climb the tree. The Gospel on the contrary,begins with promises: and promises give birth to precepts.
the Law demands justice: the Gospel delights in mercy through satisfied justice.Moses blesses the law doer: Jesus pardons the guilty and saves the lost.

Choice sayings From: RC Chapman
around 1905.

I pray this blesses the hearts that read it.it provoked and blessed mine.

this is the first time i have ever wrote on these threads, so i hope i did it right.

i would ask you all also to pray for me, i just came back to the call of our lord, after a real hard and long falling away from him.the darts are fireing at myself and my family,Satan hates us,but greater is he who is in us, then he that is in the world:)


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sandy

 2011/1/23 22:14Profile
seekhymm
Member



Joined: 2009/1/18
Posts: 13
montana

 Re: just want to share with brothers and sisters

Thread
seekhymm
Member



Joined: 2009/1/18
Posts: 3
montana

Online! Re: Day of Worship
Hi everyone,
I would just like to share what the Lord showed me as a young christian,just learning the commandments.I was at a seventh day adventist church for a prophacy meeting,and they had said that working on the sabbath, which is on saterday was concidared as taking the mark of the beast.
well needless to say i was really troubled in my spirit and asked a sister whos life was so godly about the matter.
She being so much like christ pointed me to the lord and said she couldnt answer that for me. I would have to seek the Lord for the answer. I prayed to the Lord and opened my bible next to me with the faith like a child,and the first scripture i read was;mathew 11:28 (come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden,and i will give you rest).
at that moment i knew that he is my rest.(sabbath).i had peace in my heart because our lord has a holy obligation to his children to lead them into all truth. i say that with reverance.I myself seek him every minute, hour and day that i am able to breath.his grace and mercy are new every morning,Praise His Name.
I just read a saying from a old brother who is now with the lord.I thought i would share it.

The law was magnified by christ, and made honourable; and therfore God in His righteousness must magnify for ever christ and his members with him.
Under the law they laboured first,and rested after (exod. xx,8-11); but under the gospel we rest first, by faith in jesus, and then work.
The Law begins with commands and ends with blessings; but the blessings are fruit upon lofty branches, which fallen man can never reach: he cannot and will not climb the tree. The Gospel on the contrary,begins with promises: and promises give birth to precepts.
the Law demands justice: the Gospel delights in mercy through satisfied justice.Moses blesses the law doer: Jesus pardons the guilty and saves the lost.

Choice sayings From: RC Chapman
around 1905.

I pray this blesses the hearts that read it.it provoked and blessed mine.

this is the first time i have ever wrote on these threads, so i hope i did it right.

i would ask you all also to pray for me, i just came back to the call of our lord, after a real hard and long falling away from him.the darts are fireing at myself and my family,Satan hates us,but greater is he who is in us, then he that is in the world:)



2011/1/23 17:14 Profile / Message /


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sandy

 2011/1/23 22:49Profile
bibleseeker
Member



Joined: 2011/1/21
Posts: 21


 Your link

Hi In the Light! Every scriptural reference in this link comes from the apocrypha, which, to the best of my research, is not inspired by God. I offer you: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/apocryph.htm for some reading on the subject.

 2011/1/24 0:40Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:


Hi seekhymm. Welcome to SermonIndex. You did just fine.


Dear Chris,

Quote:
I am ALWAYS keenly aware of the flawed humanity that we live in on this side of the "glass darkly" of Eternity.

Quote:
Still, there are some things for which the Word of God is exceedingly clear on.


If you truly believed the first, you would not have stated the second.

The problem is, if we already "know," we have no need for the LORD. Why would He shed His light upon that which we already "know?"

I am not trying to convince you of any particular thing, I am just trying to show you how you are getting in your own way.

God bless you and keep you.

 2011/1/24 0:45Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi HeartSong...

Quote:

If you truly believed the first, you would not have stated the second.



Actually, it is because I know the first that I am careful when I determine the second.

Quote:

The problem is, if we already "know," we have no need for the LORD. Why would He shed His light upon that which we already "know?"



The Lord does NOT contradict His Word. If someone has a "vision" or "prophetic message" -- it had better align with the Word of God. Moreover, if someone were to publicly declare something more "earthly" (like "the flu shot is bad for people"), they can't just make such a bold unsubstantiated statement, claim that "God showed them" such a thing and then think that there needs to be no more discussion or opinions about the matter.

I agree that we should be "slow to speak" -- and only do so when we have something substantial to inject. Moreover, we should be mindful that our words are also mingled with grace and knowing and making clear the difference between what we DON'T KNOW is true, what we THINK to be true, what we KNOW to be true, whether opposing sources and evidences might offer a DIFFERENT perspective on what is true, and what the WORD SAYS to be true.

Quote:

I am not trying to convince you of any particular thing, I am just trying to show you how you are getting in your own way.



So, I am getting in my own way? I am trying to stand OUT OF the way -- while still offering caution about what some people proclaim as a "truth" that God has "revealed" to them and who who stand so firmly on it...but who still caution those who don't adhere.

Someone signed up to the forums and brought up a much-debated discussion about why most believers don't practice Old Testament adherence laws for the Sabbath. I presented a response that is echoed by many believers. While I am firmly aware of my own flawed humanity on this side of eternity, I feel that the Word is quite clear on this matter (evidenced in the Scripture that I provided in previous posts). However, I do feel that you are inspecting me for not prayerfully and studiously arriving to the same prayerful and studious conclusion as your own.

I am not worried about whether or not you (or anyone else) practice some semblance of Sabbath keeping. For me: Every day is a Sabbath rest for the children of God. I am not worried about anyone calling me out simply because I don't adhere to their own particular, sectarian or doctrinal views on the issue. However, I do worry when someone presents a "Scriptures say that we must adhere" or "God showed me" validation of their view. That is quite a weight of responsibility! There are visitors to this forum -- including newborn believers. I do not believe that we should cause them to think that they are under some compulsion to adhere to Old Covenant laws. That can be quite a heavy yoke (or millstone) to carry.

Oddly enough, I do not work on either Saturday or Sunday. This isn't because I think that I cannot. This is just because I don't. Then again, there are some people who think making a sandwich on Saturday is wrong. If this is true, I have been "guilty." I suppose that this is akin to what the Pharisees complained to the Lord of the Sabbath when he healed the sick or when the disciples picked wheat on a day that they thought such a thing was forbidden.

This matter doesn't even seem to be one that we should be debating. For me, Romans 6, 7, 8 and 14 are quite clear on the matter -- and we should all endeavor to serve the Lord in this regard with a clear conscience. Yet I would also caution us from entertaining a deep public debate on matters that some might set up as preeminent for the faith...if they just don't matter so much in the shadow of Eternity.

I am not saying that I am absolutely right in this (or any) issue. My views are just that -- my views through prayerful study. Indeed, the Word does seem to be clear on this matter to me. However, I am also saying that we need to be very careful before we declare any sort of monopoly on God's thoughts on a subject.

Unfortunately, there are sects (like the Seventh Day Adventists) who take their views so far as to declare that anyone who does not adhere to strict Sabbath requirements are NOT a part of the "true remnant." That, in my opinion, is a misguided deception.


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Christopher

 2011/1/24 2:24Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Dear Chris,
I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention, both now and back when we were talking about the flu shot. Please forgive me. I pray that you have a blessed day.

 2011/1/24 5:37Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Thank you for the feedback everyone. It has been interesting comparing scripture from both sides. I have to admit, the sabbath truth is not that obvious, especially in the New Testament. But if we say it is done away with then how will we explain these passages?

Rev 14:12- Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (What commandments are these)

Isaiah 66:22-23 - For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. (Even after the second coming we will still be keeping the Sabbath)

Daniel 7:25- He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. (This is prophecy..lets assume it has nothing to do with the changing of the sabbath like someone mentioned earlier... then what does it mean and when did it take place?)

Jesus prophesy about the things that will take place in the future in

Matthew 24:19-21 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (What time was this?.. Is this after the cross?)

Also, we have to determine whether the sabbath is part of the ceremonial law? Also, was there a difference between the sabbaths and sabbath?

Also, why do we think that God wrote the 10 commandments with His own fingers?

Chris, you really brought up good points...I am looking into all the text you brought up bro...I think we will all agree that we are not saved by following the law. You can keep the 10 commandment all you went but if the Spirit is not in you then it is all in vain. Yet, I don't know if Paul is saying we should view it as something bad cause the same Paul said in Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. My understanding is that if you allow Christ to abide in you then automatically you will keep the commandments of God. The law was contrary to us before because no matter what we did we couldn't keep the law perfectly but now that Christ abides in us and us in him we keep it without even really thinking about it). I must say though the writing from Paul about the law,faith & grace can be hard to understand if we are not led by the spirit. Even Peter said that (2 Peter 3:16) The same Paul who at times seems to be putting the law away also says the law is Holy (Rom 7:12).

Personally, I really do not think the law is a burden. It is there for my benefit. I delight in keeping the Sabbath (PS: I also make sandwiches on Sabbath :-). When Christ came, He really taught the truth about Sabbath. We are suppose to be free to enjoy that day He sat apart since creation. It's like the good Samaritan story..If a sabbath keeping person pass by someone in need on a sabbath because they think they will be late for church or will be working then they do not truly understand the Sabbath. Unfortunately, some sabbath keeping people make it look like a burden. Also, just because you keep the Sabbath does not guarantee you Salvation cause many people keep it in a legalistic sense like the Pharisees.

Also this does not mean that you shouldn't spend time with God everyday. Without spending time with him daily, there is no way i can fight the battle against the flesh. He empowers me daily with His spirit so i can live as He would like me to. Even if you come to the conclusion that the Sabbath was only for the Jews, then the question will still remain. Why should one day be special than the other?

I think that is enough for now....

Please, let's continue to comment in love. We are one in Christ.







 2011/1/24 21:01Profile
A-Run
Member



Joined: 2008/9/8
Posts: 56
India

 Re:

Hi Brothers,

I have been going through this thread carefully. And its interesting and helpful.

Quote:
Matthew 24:19-21 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:



Did you ever thought that this particular passage applies to Jews/Israel and not to believers? I would be interested in hearing because- if this applies to Jews/Israel then surely the sabbath issue doesn't arise because the Jews/Israel observe Sabbath even now.

I think Bro. Chris is right in what he's been trying to say- everyone should read his posts carefully.
And at the same, I have no problem with brothers who chose to keep the sabbath/rest day/Lord's day.
And its very important that nobody makes this (observance) as a rule/regulation for fellowship or membership. We don't see this in ACTS ch15, which I think is the key chapter.


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Arun

 2011/1/25 1:49Profile





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