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 Re: Day of Worship

So,..I guess taking my kids to their hockey game is out of the question??!! I dont make up the schedualing.
Sometimes I feel real guilty about though and other times I think,..well..I've read some scriptures and prayed silently to myself and talked to the kids about the lord a bit (any topic that comes about) before we have to head out to a game.
I think if our hearts and minds are on the Lord that day,...no matter what we do...we should be ok,...shouldn't we??
We do run busy lives these days....I try not to get caught up in alot of stuff that goes on around and ktry to keep our family life simple and TOGETHER.

 2011/1/12 16:18Profile
kwamenat
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Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

I will say read more in the Word and see what God's wants you to do on the Lord's day. They Holy spirit will lead you if you are sincerely searching. God bless

 2011/1/12 19:44Profile
kwamenat
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Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Below is the commentary i got from Matthew Henry on Mark 2:27- Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".

Matthew Henry Commentary:
"The sabbath is a sacred and Divine institution; a privilege and benefit, not a task and drudgery. God never designed it to be a burden to us, therefore we must not make it so to ourselves. The sabbath was instituted for the good of mankind, as living in society, having many wants and troubles, preparing for a state of happiness or misery. Man was not made for the sabbath, as if his keeping it could be of service to God, nor was he commanded to keep it outward observances to his real hurt. Every observance respecting it, is to be interpreted by the rule of mercy."

As a matter fact, I am shocked about the other commentaries from different religious backgrounds on this issue (i simply google the bible text and i got all these commentaries in the link below.

http://bible.cc/mark/2-27.htm

Honestly, is the Sabbath really a burden for man? What burden is there in spending solid time with God on the day he sanctified. Who can honestly say they spend all day with God everyday..unless you don't work! At times we long to be with God in a deeper way but the cares of this world does not allow us but God knowing this set a day aside. It is for our own enjoyment in the Lord. It makes so much sense if we look at the benefits instead of seeing it as a burden!

 2011/1/13 1:01Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi kwamenat...

Quote:

Honestly, is the Sabbath really a burden for man? What burden is there in spending solid time with God on the day he sanctified. Who can honestly say they spend all day with God everyday..unless you don't work! At times we long to be with God in a deeper way but the cares of this world does not allow us but God knowing this set a day aside. It is for our own enjoyment in the Lord. It makes so much sense if we look at the benefits instead of seeing it as a burden!



It is a burden only if you are bound to some sort of strict adherence to it. Since most believers feel that the Law has been (and is) fulfilled and superseded by the New Covenant Law of Christ, then it is NOT a burden. We can fulfill the principle of the Sabbath (by remembering the completed work of God...and being holy) by the grace of God.

In the New Testament, we are told to "pray always" (I Thessalonians 5:17). We are supposed to continuously walk in the holiness of God. Personally, I am always remembering the Lord! Whether I am at work...at home...at Church...or just watching a sunset, I consider the things of God!

Interestingly, the "Sabbath" is one of those things that predates the Law of Moses. It existed from the seventh day of Creation. There were no "binding prerequisites" until the Law of Moses. On the 7th day, God simply rested and blessed the day. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc... -- none of them were "bound" to any specific Sabbath requirements (at least, nothing that is specifically recorded in Scripture). It seems that these patriarchs simply remembered that the Sabbath was blessed because it was the day when God finished His work.

Still...the New Testament is clear that we are no longer bound to the Law of the Old Covenant. We have a new law -- of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus -- that actually sets us from from, supersedes and fulfills the old.

Now, if you want to see a day as "special" -- then do so with a clear conscience. However, Romans 14:4-9 is clear that we should not judge someone for such matters. Unfortunately, I have encountered people who told me that I couldn't possibly be "saved" if I didn't fulfill some Old Testament requirements regarding specific conduct for the Sabbath.

Of course, I realize that you haven't done this here. Yet there are Seventh Day Adventists who are quite vocal with this belief -- and many more! I have been told that the small independent Church with which I fellowshipped at the time was a "Satanic harlot" and that even the sincere prayers offered from it were an abomination from God. It seemed like every discussion eventually meandered into an attempt to convince me of the "gross error" in my beliefs.

It is striking to me how Romans 14:4-9 is so different in tone to the "must believe" rhetoric explained to me by the faithful Seventh Day Adventists that I knew...and even the official denominational website. This is why I pointed out the general lack of "must believes" at the beginning of the early Church in Acts 15 (regarding specific questions about Old Testament requirements).

Thus, I am trying to explain that most believers (like those here at SermonIndex) do not see the Sabbath as an issue at all. It was a part of the Old Covenant that was fulfilled and finished at the Cross. We now have a more lasting covenant that isn't dependent upon some particular set of requirements from the Old Covenant.

We fulfill the entire law and the prophets by submitting ourselves daily to Christ Jesus! If we love the Lord our God with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength...and love our neighbors as ourselves...we fulfill the principles upon which the Law was based. This is why Christ said, "You have heard it said..." about adultery, murder, etc... Jesus, rather, lay the ax to the root of the issue by telling us that if we took care of lust and anger, we don't have to worry about fulfilling a command against adultery and murder.

I hope that this makes better sense regarding your initial question as to WHY we don't sincerely and prayerfully feel any specific requirements for adherence to the Law (including the Sabbath). Like Jesus said after being accused of breaking Sabbath requirements, the "Sabbath was made for man...and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27).


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Christopher

 2011/1/13 1:51Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/13
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 Re: Day of Worship


I have come across very few Christians that keep the 7th day sabbath. The LORD showed me that I am to keep it, and I do, unless He directs me to do otherwise. For the most part I am greatly relieved when it rolls around and have found it to be a most blessed time with the LORD. Sometimes the enemy tricks me into breaking my sabbath - if you give him a minute, he will consume the whole day. One of the ways that I know that the sabbath is important to the LORD is the amount of effort that the enemy puts forth in trying to get me to do things that I have no desire to do after the sabbath has passed.

 2011/1/13 3:55Profile
UniqueWebRev
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Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
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 Re: Sabbath Keeping

I too have been led of the Spirit to remember the Sabbath on Saturdays, and one of the things I too have noticed that keeping the Sabbath outside of Israel these days is not easy to do. Merely trying to recall the day is fought so hard by those around you,

Keeping your thoughts entirely on the Lord for even the daylight hours of Saturday is very hard to do. (Not being in Israel, I have great difficulty in recalling a sunset on Friday as the end of the day.) particularly if you are alone a good deal, and spend the other six days in conversation with YHVH as well. It's not as if I had work to keep me too busy to think of God except at meals.

In the beginning of merely trying to observe the day, my flesh was being encouraged by the Adversary to the point that I would not recall Saturday was the Sabbath until sunset on Saturday! Now, I begin to look for it by Thursday, wanting to be in that day, even though I spend most of my time with God anyway.

I do not see it as a commandment, but sort of a weekly remembrance of creation being finished, and finished so well that God was satisfied with it. The awareness of seperateness, or holiness...the day being set apart as we are supposed to be set apart for God's use.

Not being Jewish I merely recall the day...stay in awareness of the specialness of the day, and on the High Holy Days try to catch a Messianic synagogue service by internet. However, even the most Orthodox of Jews spend most of the day fellowshipping with others in between prayers, and at meals. The sabbath was made for man to use for something other than working.

The closer we get to the Lord returning, the more I am aware that God also used the Sabbath as a mark of covenant keeping, and I wonder how harsh the pressure to conform to the outer world will be in future.



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Forrest Anderson

 2011/1/13 4:35Profile
kwamenat
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Joined: 2011/1/8
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 Re:

Ya, the reason most people don't want to hear about the Sabbath is that Sabbath keeping folks make's it look like a burden. They make it seem like they have to do it for Salvation. We are not saved by works or following the 10 commandments in itself. Since we love Christ and He lives in us we delight to His will. We delight to follow His commandments. We are not bound or in chains to do anything. We simply obey because we love Jesus for what He did on the cross for us.

This was the problem with the pharisees. They simply thought by keeping the law they were fine with God even though their hearts were far away from God. That is why Christ went an extra step to say even if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery. It is an issue of the heart itself and not the law of God.

The Law of God is Holy, just and good. The Law (10 commandments) is still binding upon Christians today. We must keep God's Commandments. The Law is written in our hearts under the New Covenant(Hebrews 8:10). Grace does not nullify the Law of Chist. Grace through faith establishes the Law(Romans 3:31).


Consider Jesus commandments that He gave in Matthew 28:37-40- "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

"ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS"

The 1st commandment Jesus mentioned- Love the Lord your God with all the heart summarizes the first 4 commandments and the second commandment, Love your neighbor summarizes the 6 commandments. Compare the 10 commandments with this statement, it makes perfect sense.

Unless we can prove that when Paul said the law is done with He was talking about the 10 commandments we have no grounds for saying the 7th day Sabbath is done away with. Paul was clearly talking about CEREMONIAL LAWS. Now the sabbaths associated with the ceremonial laws are done away with.

Now notice that in Leviticus 23:37 it says, “These are the feasts of the LORD” and then it goes on to say in verse 38 that these feasts, or Sabbaths, are “Beside the Sabbaths of the LORD.” Thus these ceremonial Sabbaths are in addition to the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments. So we see that what was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial law of offering, sacrifices and yearly feasts, or Sabbaths. While the ten commandment law with it’s weekly Sabbath is still in effect.

 2011/1/13 12:12Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 527
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 Re:

The verses Miccah quoted from Romans are critical. They specifically show all days to be equal. It is then the issue of our heart.

When the Romans verses are coupled with Paul's further teaching about not causing a weaker brother to stumble the following seems to be a good guideline.. for me at least.

I will personally celebrate all days equally as a gift from God. However, I will also set aside a day week to specifically spend extra focus on Him and His working in my life.

However, if I am in a community where using Sunday is a specific stumbling block TO THE BROTHER I AM AROUND then I will be fine with Saturday...or whatever day they set aside ...that will not offend their conscience.

IF HOWEVER I am not around that/those person(s) then I am not bound in my actions by their weak conscience. I will act on my freedom that all days are God's alone and use them in celebration of Him.

It really does just boil down to loving God all the time... and then loving my brother enough to defer to their weaker conscience and understanding of lessened righteousness when around them. That is exactly what Paul was saying about the eating of meat offered to idols. If it offends a brother I will abstain...however, since it is all owned by God I am free to eat the meat when alone as I am not bound by the other brothers weaker conscience.

I don't have to defend worship on any day...I worship every day. But I will do what is helpful to a weaker brother until they reach a stage of maturity and understanding of a real day of rest. Check it out in Hebrews.

Just loving God all the time and sometimes putting myself out just a little for the love of my brother. No need to defend my position or attack theirs... just walk in love.

Blessings!

 2011/1/13 13:59Profile
kwamenat
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Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Solomon,

I really enjoy reading your comment but I see a serious issue with what you make of Paul statements about making sure to offend others. On the other side can you see how this can at times lead to compromising truth. Paul was addressing things that were not necessary sinful in itself.

As a young student, I have lots of friends whom I play around with and share scripture with here and there but I always make sure to tell them the truth as it is from the Word. They still know that I love them very much even if they disagree at times. It is all about our approach. We need to walk in love at all times like you said but also divide the word of truth...with love!

Nate

 2011/1/13 15:22Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 527
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 Re:

kwamenat,

You stated,

Quote:
"On the other side can you see how this can at times lead to compromising truth. Paul was addressing things that were not necessary sinful in itself.



EXACTLY! The issue of what day to worship on is NOT a question that has a right (correct) or wrong (sinful) answer.

Paul makes that point exactly in Romans 14:1 when he said,
Quote:
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.



He makes the identical point in the next few verses about eating of foods that some would not eat because thay were declared unclean in the Old Testament... some food that God had in fact commanded that they not eat in the Old Testament..
Quote:
For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.



It is all done with love to the brothers and their conscience in mind,
Quote:
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.



Now...it is apparent that food, days of rest or worship, and many other things no longer are restrictive on the follower of Jesus. It is the law of loving God and your neighbor as yourself that determines our actions.

Please do not misunderstand me..there certainly are things that are specifically forbidden in the New Covenant. Specifically so in scripture...sexual relations outside of the marriage covenant, murder, lying, etc. Many of these are listed... as they also clearly violate the law of love. However, the issues of days of worship and things discussed in this thread were clearly addressed by Paul and the Council in Jerusalem in the book of Acts. They all agreed with what I am saying. Remember..Jesus said that the sabbath was made for man... NOT man for the sabbath.

Peace and Blessings To You!

 2011/1/13 15:59Profile





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