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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Should women where veils today?

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Mike,

I checked out your blog, read it and saw the pics of your family. All are worth a read. Your testimony there as well as the one above is inspiring.

Quote:
My wife is a walking tract.



Absolutely true. Obedience provides one with many opportunities to share the Gospel.

Thanks for sharing.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/12/21 21:02Profile









 Re:

Would you agree that it is refering to married women. When you get married you become one body, and the women comes under the headship of man, and both under the headship of Jesus Christ?

I think this is one of those things which tends to get written off as "cultural", when it is more about the fall of mankind in the garden. I think it is something I want to follow, but what is the teaching for singletons?

 2010/12/24 21:56
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

Quote:
Would you agree that it is refering to married women. When you get married you become one body, and the women comes under the headship of man, and both under the headship of Jesus Christ?



I would think not because otherwise it would probably read 'husband' not 'man'.


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Michelle

 2010/12/24 22:44Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
One day, awhile back, the LORD put it upon my heart to read three verses of scripture during the church service. While the reading of the scripture itself ended up to be quite a controversy, it was through this act that the LORD showed me that He would have my head to be covered during corporate prayer and prophesying. The night before the service, everywhere I went on the internet had pictures of women wearing hats - there were hats of all kinds of colors, shapes and sizes. I really didn't get the connection until someone mentioned that women were to remain silent in the church, and when I read 1 Corinthians 11:5 to refute their comment - "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." - I remembered seeing all of the hats and I knew why the LORD had put them before me. :)



Dear sister,

A tremendous testimony. I believe simply the scriptures show this as an act of obedience and its symbolism speaks of heavenly things and is important. I personally am not against sisters who will wear the "covering" all the time, which I believe can be a tremendous expression of heart modesty.

But what is biblical and definetly needful in meetings is for women to have a covering. Oh may the church in North America simply come to a place of obedience on these issues. The much more important realities are heart realities and holiness which is the Spirit of Christ. But this is one scriptural outward expression.

There are many legalistic and religious groups that require head covering but it must be an expression of loving obedience to the Spirit of Christ and not men's legalistic requirement.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2010/12/24 22:54Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1999
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
What do you all think this verse is saying? 1 Cor 11:16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. In other translations, it's worded differently.



There are several things Paul says in the first part of this chapter that are interesting. He shows the head covering of a woman as representing her husband's authority over her, but no such covering for the man although he is under a greater authority (God). He goes on to equate long hair for the woman as equivalent to the scarf. But then he makes a statement that, in every translation I have other than the NIV (which I usually hold pretty loosely anyhow) he states that believers (the church) does not hold to this tradition. There are several times in Paul's writings when he steps back and says something like, "Let me throw in m y opinion which is not the word of the Lord, but I have His permission to say this." (example, 1 Cor 7) It was Jewish tradition that women, and men too I believe, pray under shawls. But here Paul says men do not need covering. Yet he states that that what he is stating is a custom that the church does not hold. Assuredly this was not something most Gentiles were accustomed to. I personally don't believe this is a command from the Lord that women wear head covering. However, I do some things myself that, although not commanded to do, yet I do them out of love and devotion to the Lord. So in my opinion, if a woman wants to have her head covered and does it out of desire for the Lord, I applaud it and admire her devotion. If she does it out of legal obligation, I would not applaud it, it is error in my opinion for her relationship to God is then based on law.


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Travis

 2010/12/25 10:23Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Travis,

If what you said is true, why did the early church women wear veils? Why did all Christian women wear a head covering until in recent years? The early church fathers taught it...

Travis, one always runs into trouble when we work to reason "Yea, hath God said?"

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/12/27 9:17Profile
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re: The Head Covering - by Watchman Nee

I just came across this article, and it is probably very well the best article that I have personally ever read on this topic. Watchman Nee goes through probably nearly every question one may have on it. Though it has been posted on this forum before, I thought I would re-post for this thread.

God bless!

The Head Covering - by Watchman Nee

When the Lord Jesus was on earth, on the one hand He came to be Savior of the world, to deliver men from sin. This is according to the system of grace. On the other hand, God sent Him to the world that through the work of the cross He might establish His own authority and set up His kingdom so that the heavens might rule on the earth. This Is the system of government. Its work will continue until the power of the devil is destroyed and the kingdom and the new heaven and the new earth are brought in.

Many hold to a fundamental error: they foolishly maintain that grace can set government aside. The truth is that what God does in grace never alters God’s government.... Grace only complements government.... Grace is for the purpose of redeeming and restoring those who are insubordinate and rebellious so that they may be subject to God’s governmental system.... Grace can never nullify government; rather, grace enables people to obey government. May I say with all Seriousness that grace gives us strength to be subject to government.

Head Covering and God’s Government

The matter of head covering belongs to God’s government. For those who do not know God’s government, it is impossible to exhort them to have their heads covered. They will not be able to understand how much is involved in this matter. But those who have seen God’s government in God’s revealed Word are able to appreciate the tremendous connection between head covering and government.

The meaning of head covering is: I submit myself to God’s government: I accept God’s appointed position: I dare not nullify His government by the grace I have received; I do not even dare to think about it; on the contrary, I accept God’s government. As Christ accepts God as His head, so should every man accept Christ as his head. Likewise, woman should representatively accept man as her head. In covering the head, the woman signifies that she is not head, that she is as if she has no head—for it is covered.

God calls upon the sisters to show this arrangement. It is through the sisters that God’s governmental system is to be displayed. It is the sisters who are responsible to have the sign of obedience on their heads. God specifically requires women to have their head covered when praying or prophesying. Why? Because they ought to know God’s government when they come before Him. In going before God to pray for people or in going before people to prophesy for God, whether In praying or in prophesying, whether in that which goes to God or in that which comes from God, in whatever is related to God, head covering is demanded. The purpose Is to manifest the government of God.

Today woman has a sign of authority on her head because of the angels, that is, as a testimony to the angels. Only the sisters in the church can testify to this, for the women of the world know nothing of it. Today when the sisters have the sign of authority on their heads, they bear the testimony that, “I have covered my head so that I do not have my own head, for I do not seek to be head. My ‘head is veiled, and I have accepted man as head, and to accept man as head means that I have accepted Christ as head and God as head. But some of you angels have rebelled against God.” This is what it meant “because of the angels.”

I have on my head a sign of authority. I am a woman with my head covered. This is a most excellent testimony to the angels, to the fallen and to the unfallen ones. No wonder Satan persistently opposes the matter of the head covering. It really puts him to shame. We are doing what he has failed to do. What God did not receive from the angels, He now has from the church.

When many of the sisters in the church take the place given to women and learn to cover their heads, they send out an unspoken word of testimony to the angels in the air, to the effect that God has obtained in the church what He desires. Because of this, woman must have on her head a sign of authority, a testimony to the angels.

Let us remember that although in practice it is only the woman who has her head covered, yet, in reality, Christ has His head covered before God and every man has his head covered before Christ. Why is it that God only requires woman to have the practice of having her head covered? This indeed is marvelous, for it involves a very deep principle.

When a sister covers her head, she is standing before God on the basis of Christ’s position before God and man’s position before Christ. God wants the woman to cover her head in order to manifest His government on earth. This privilege falls only to the woman. She does not cover her head merely for her own self; she does it representatively. It is because she represents man before Christ and Christ before God. So when a woman covers her head before God, it is just the same as if Christ covered His head before God.... Man and woman should have no head since Christ is the head. If one’s head is not covered, there will be two heads. Between God and Christ, one head must be covered; so too must it be between man and woman and so between Christ and every man. If one head is not covered, the result will be that there are two heads, and God’s government does not allow two heads. If God is head, then Christ is not; if Christ is head, then man is not; if man is head, then woman is not.

Regarding the Contentious

So, for man to be uncovered and woman covered is a charge that only Christian apostles have given. It is a practice the churches of God alone hold, for it is different from both the Jewish and the Gentile custom. It is something few observe and understand, and it is from God.

All the apostles believed that woman should have her head covered. If anyone today professes to be an apostle and yet does not believe in the head covering of woman, he cannot be counted as one of the apostles. He must be taken as an outsider. There is no such practice among the apostles of not believing this. If any church does not believe, Paul’s answer is, “We have no such custom, neither the churches of God.” None of the local churches which the apostles had visited had any such custom as arguing about woman’s head covering. So the answer to any who argue is that there is no such practice as arguing about It. Paul is willing to reason in a few earlier verses, but after that he reasons no more. If any seems to be contentious, Paul says no apostle will approve of that one’s opinion. If anyone wants to argue, no church will agree with his view. You are outside the fellowship of the churches as well as of the apostles.

Therefore, let our sisters cover their heads in the church when praying or prophesying. Why? To manifest that in the church God has obtained that which He has failed to get in the world, in the universe, and among the angels.




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Michelle

 2010/12/30 0:33Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:


Thank you sister! Just a short while ago I heard Zac Poonen talking about showing meekness as an example to the angels, and having missed the first part of his sermon, I was unclear as to what he was talking about. So I asked the LORD to show me and up pops your post explaining it all - only in regards to head covering - which I needed to understand also. GOD is good!

 2010/12/30 1:22Profile
nasekom
Member



Joined: 2009/5/29
Posts: 146
Dublin,Ireland

 Re:

Good article.Good explanation of why women are to be covered.My wife does cover her head,but i'd like to show her that article and discuss it together for deeper understanding of this subject.thanks.


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Yuri

 2010/12/30 7:03Profile
Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re:

here is a link to a good concise book written by GW North available in pdf from Ron Bailey's site. just click on the download link.http://mp3.biblebase.com/details_44.html see what you think.


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derek Eyre

 2010/12/30 7:07Profile





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