| Poster | Thread | Alf
Member
Joined: 2008/4/11
Posts: 82
Miami, FL
| | Please pray for the DREAM Act | | hey guys just wanted prayer for the DREAM act, which is being voted on right now. The Bill allows immigrants that came to this country under the age of 16 and graduated from high school and dont have a criminal background to go to college and pay regular fees and eventually allowing them their residence. May the Justice of God live out as always :D! thank you for the prayers!
Much love and blessing to all in Christ
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Alfredo
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|  2010/12/8 16:42 | Profile | White_Stone
Member
Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida
| | Re: Please pray for the DREAM Act | | Hello Alf,
In my opinion your asking me to pray for this 'Dream' is out of line. I have no problem praying for God's will but not man's will.
An immigrant comes to this Country legally following the proper procedure. A thief sneaks in. Why should I be asked to reward illegal behavior?
Nothing is without consequences and this Bill will bring many at a time the Country is least able to pay for them.
This is no longer the Country in which I was born. I no longer have faith in it, only in my Lord and Savior Jesus.
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Janice
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| | 2010/12/8 21:11 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss
Member
Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779
| | | 2010/12/8 23:18 | Profile | Alf
Member
Joined: 2008/4/11
Posts: 82
Miami, FL
| | Re: | | guys i said pray :) we will know God's will by tomorrow. May his will be done and accepted as always.
Thanks for the prayers !
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Alfredo
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| | 2010/12/9 23:06 | Profile | Lordoitagain
Member
Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 632
Monroe, LA - USA
| | Re: | | Alf, I have been praying earnestly for the DREAM act to pass. I find it hard to justify our nation´s immigration laws by the Bible. Most people know very little about our immigration laws. They don´t realize that they almost completely disallow the poor from entering our country.
Yesterday morning I listed to these verses:
Eze 47:21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
Eze 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
Eze 47:23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
These are a few amongst many that condemn our Nation´s immigration laws. When we refuse to let the poor come in and reap the corners of our fields we are in violation of God´s plan for a nation. In the New Testament we see the same theme reinforced:
Mat 25:35 .... I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: ...
We will be on one side or the other in that day. When we uphold laws that bar them out of our country because we fear the loss of our comfortable lifestyle ... we are no different than those who uphold laws for murdering unborn babies. Most of us are descendants of immigrants who broke the laws of England and the laws of the native americans who ruled this land, or else our ancestors came here before we had immigration laws here. The farther our nation has drifted from God, the tougher our immigration laws have become. We are trying hard to hold on to our little fortress of prosperity by prohibiting entrance of poor people. Soon our just and holy God will make us eat the fruit of our own doings.
Back when we were a more God fearing nation, we erected a big statue with this inscription: "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The statue still stands, but our immigration laws make a mockery of its message.
Pro 11:24 There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.
If we as a nation could repent and reform our wretched immigration laws to keep out criminals and not poor people ... we could get back to the increase that we knew in the past when the poor could freely migrate to our land. The DREAM act would be one step in that direction.
I sincerely believe that if the DREAM act does not pass, it will be the judgment of God on a nation that is withholding more than is meet, and we will be plunged into a deeper poverty than those poor that we are forbidding entrance.
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Michael Strickland
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| | 2010/12/10 3:41 | Profile | gman411
Member
Joined: 2010/9/8
Posts: 3
Las Vegas
| | Re: | | First off, please get the facts right from this recent post. Hispanics, predominately Mexicans, are the largest people group given legal immigration status here. Furthermore, The Founding Father's established the Christian Enterprise, which was to allow Christians to migrate here for the purpose to worship freely and sending forth the gospel, not the poor gospel, which is a perverted gospel. They understod the bible and demographic impacts. This is nothing more than a typical Liberal twist of scripture concerning the poor. Only in a liberal bible does it say help the poor and force your neighbor to PAY for it. Besides that these scriptures are taking out of context. This is why God commands a Christian to STUDY to show yourself approved, not shameful. Now to the person that needs to study more and teach less, There is no excuse for this level of bible ignorance. It is laziness and disobedience in knowing God and His Word. You still do not know whom Jesus speaks of in Matthew 25?!
Dude are you smoking crack? All joking aside though. Obey the laws of the land..submit to governing authority,... do what is right in the sight of God and man,... wages of sin is...,get away from Me you workers of lawlessness....To name just a few scriptures concerning obedience to the Law of God and a government.
Lawlessness is rampant in the same Hispanic countries where they came from illegally. They are unrepentant of their lawless deeds but instead are demanding and unashame. With that said I still love them.
My dear friend, I ask you to consider your way. If you hide sin in your heart you will not prosper. The bible is clear. It is sin to come into the country illegally, breaking the law. And very often, you have to cover a sin with another lie, which in this case is usually identity fraud. Ask God to give you mercy an understanding, by the gift of repentance, to bring you out of this deception that is coming from the anti christ spirit and leading many into darkness.
There has not been a confession of sin; that our fathers have sinned and we have continued in it but instead that we are innocent children. The illegals need preachers of righteousness that will lead them to God's mercy and understanding which comes by true repentance, that will bring an honest heart and not theses false pastures and profits that error. I have done more to help a poor stranger but it is SIN that needs to be addressed and prayer concerning here. |
| | 2010/12/10 10:36 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
If we as a nation could repent and reform our wretched immigration laws to keep out criminals and not poor people ... we could get back to the increase that we knew in the past when the poor could freely migrate to our land. The DREAM act would be one step in that direction
The poor can and do migrate to our land legally every single day. We do have laws in place, that in theory, don't allow people to just come across without going through a process, and having a certain standard of who gets in and who doesn't. Though of course, people violate those laws every single day. There is nothing unreasonable about requiring some sort of process to allow people to cross our borders. Of course, things get messy and legislation like this has to be introduced because of the unfortunate fact that people choose to ignore our nations laws and enter anyway.
I don't know enough about this DREAM Act law to say strongly one way or the other about it. But, from the little I do understand about the law, it seems to be rewarding bad and illegal behavior. If I've understood it correctly, which I might not, the DREAM act allows individuals who are here illegally to become legal citizens if they get an education or volunteer for the armed services. I can't say such is a totally bad thing in and of itself.
But truth be told, somebody who is here illegally and going to school or joining the army, or doing virtually anything else in this country, usually requires using things like social security numbers which aren't theirs, and thus committing acts of fraud. Yet, we are willing to overlook the countless acts of identity theft, and reward them with citizenship. If you and I were to practice such behavior, we would land in jail with a felony conviction.
I've worked a couple retail jobs in my day, one selling phones, the other allowing people to obtain credit cards. It was always an interesting thing to see an illegal immigrant come to the store and be rather bumfuzzled over the fact that they needed a social security number to apply for credit. But when they didn't know what that was, they either got angry and left, or called up one of their buddies to try and use somebody else's social security number. If you or I did that: jail time is a possibilty. If an illegal does that: they might become citizens of the United State of America.
A pretty weird and unjust standard if you ask me.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2010/12/10 12:17 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss
Member
Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779
| | Re: | | Quote:
guys i said pray :)
Actually, Alf, you asked us to pray FOR the "Dream Act."
However, you are somewhat incorrect with your interpretation of what the "Dream Act" would entail if passed. It isn't simply about letting foreigners from Mexico into our colleges and universities. It is about allowing the children of foreign nationals who illegally entered the US before the age of 16 to join our nation's military or entrance into college...serve a certain amount of years (2-4 years)...as an expediated step toward obtaining their citizenship (and all of the benefits thereof).
My wife, a LEGAL immigrant from Mexico, is very much opposed to this act. It isn't that she doesn't care for the people from the land of her birth. It isn't that she has hesitation about how extremely expensive it could be for taxpayers. It even has nothing to do with potential of giving military openings to illegal immigrants from a military that actually turns away US applicants. Rather, she says that it is an appeasement for lawlessness.
Joseph Marie de Maistre once said, "Every nation has the government that it deserves." I suppose that it is possible that some people have the government that they don't deserve too. In other words, a nation is made up of people who, together, ultimately decide upon the manner of government. The founding fathers of the United States argued that governments are raised by God via the consent of the people. James Madison pointed to a Biblical anecdote where the people of Israel cried out for a king (I Samuel 8:4-21). Yet there is no overwhelming desire for change if a very easy alternative is available (illegal immigration).
My wife argues that the people of Mexico have not been "aroused" yet to demand reform or an appropriate voice in their nation. Even with vast corruption in nearly every facet of government (from local...to police...to the D.F.). Yet, instead of a widespread voice crying out against such decadence, the people remain relatively quiet. Why? It is much easier and safer for a huge portion of their population to simply break into the nation to their north. Several Mexican states actually publish comic books explaining just how to enter the US illegally, obtain illegal and fraudulent documents, apply for social services, and, of course, send money back to Mexico. As a result, funds illegally obtained in the US are actually a huge portion of the GNP of Mexico.
Moreover, I am concerned with those who are trying to "spiritualize" this hasty piece of legislation.
This isn't about our spiritual duty to take care of the poor. Jesus told us that the poor will ALWAYS be with us -- and that we should do our part on a personal level to take care of them. This is the fatal flaw of the "Liberal Theology" that is taught in many activist congregations. They want to make it the federal government's job to do this. In other words, they are pushing the federal government to do what the Church should be doing.
Unfortunately, this causes individuals to be highly reliant upon the GOVERNMENT for their needs. Of course, the "poor" in America are different than the "poor" in most other nations. As a teenager and in college, I used to visit the government housing projects. People sometimes had big screen televisions, lots of food, air conditioning, fancy furniture, and even two nice cars in the driveway. We would invite plenty of people to ride a bus to church. Unfortunately, there was no "pressing" need in many of the people.
Many of these people seemed quite satisfied with a very easy life that they were living. It was common to find a woman and her child in one house, her sisters in other houses, her mother in another, her grandmother in another, and even her GREAT grandmother in another! Few people ever worked, yet they lived relatively well. In addition, drug use in the projects was rampant.
I cannot pray FOR the "Dream Act." However, I will pray that more missionaries will travel into Mexico...and that a revival of a hunger for God's presence will happen there.
I also think that it isn't necessarily a good thing to discuss this here. I know that we might feel passionately about it one way or the other (or even with a different perspective), but these sort of discussions often delve upon a more earthly emphasis rather than the precise, underlying spiritual matters. Such discussions often serve to distract from what is much more important. Of course, I know that I am guilty of sometimes being somewhat distracted by them myself. But I think that this discussion of the pros and cons of the Dream Act might be better left elsewhere.
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Christopher
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| | 2010/12/10 12:56 | Profile | Alf
Member
Joined: 2008/4/11
Posts: 82
Miami, FL
| | Re: | | Guys i asked for prayer, if you want to debate go study political science. this is why we have so much division in the body of Christ. I have not defended my stance on immigration nor will I. I just asked for you guys to simply pray. So again, Please pray :). the DREAM act has already jumped the first hurdle, now on monday will be the last hurdle. Pray and again please pray :). if you dont like the dream act or the immigration laws or immigrants its cool but dont come and voice your opinions that might offend somebody, let love lead the way and let God have His say with the bill.
Much love and blessings to all in Christ :) the united loving non-brother offending Christ of the Bible :). oh yeah one last thing....please simply pray even if its against the thing but pray :)
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Alfredo
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| | 2010/12/10 23:28 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss
Member
Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779
| | Re: | | Hi Alf...
This IS a political topic, as the Dream Act that you asked us to pray FOR is a piece of political legislation.
As I said before, I am praying. I am NOT praying for the Dream Act to pass (or fail, for that matter). However, I will continue to pray for a true revival to occur in the hearts of all people...including those in/from Mexico and Central and South America.
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Christopher
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| | 2010/12/10 23:35 | Profile |
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