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dharasick
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 2


 Re:

I am a Masters College student who was present for both of Paul Washer's sermons in chapel last week. Allow me to set some of the facts straight as many posters here weren't present.

There was quite a buzz around campus after Washer spoke. Obviously his ending was much different than all others, so it was highly discussed. I haven't heard any other opinion besides the fact that he was simply done with his sermon. Paul Washer is a emotional speaker, not a pastor. He uses dramatic language and pauses to affect people, and cause tears. This is what he does. He was done speaking when he walked off stage. The way he spoke came across that he was done; he didn't leave anything unsaid per se. One point no one knows about is that he finished at 10:26. Our chapel goes until 10:25. As one poster suggested, he had no more time at his disposal. He didn't finish early or leave without saying what he wanted to. It was a finished message. I don't understand why he would walk out with purpose of not wanting to talk to anyone. During his stay here, he spent a lot of time hanging out with the students, talking and answering questions. He made himself accessible, this is a doubtful cause.

Let me address the fact that he was disappointed with our reaction. Here at Masters we have 3 chapels a week, for 18 weeks. We are allowed 6 misses per semester, so often attendance is mandatory. This is not a Sunday morning church service for us. Being "forced" to be there, in addition to having a lot of schoolwork on our plate, makes the chapel audience at TMC a little different than a church. Hearts aren't always prepared. Sure this is our fault here, but as one poster made the comment, preachers shouldn't look to the outward audience's reaction as to how they are doing. TMC is a conservative Christian college. There isn't a lot of hand-raising or public outcries during singing or sermons. If Washer was expecting that, he wasn't going to get it no matter what he said.

Obviously it was awkward when he walked off. It never happens. In addition, no one came on stage afterwards to dismiss us, so it was more that no one knew what to do. I, nor one I've talked to, heard laughing from anyone. That goes against what anyone here would do. Some walked out as there is a class that starts 10 minutes after chapel ends... they need to get there and can't afford to sit there wondering what's going when a test is starting, etc... While it is usually customary for us to clap for the speaker if appropriate, I don't think it was entirely appropriate for applause to be started in this case. He was being dramatic, applause would have ruined it.

In my humble opinion, Paul Washer preached for his allotted time, and being the dramatic speaker he is, used this emotional act as part of his sermon to affect the audience of how serious the Gospel is.

I'm open for any questions or things I didn't cover/answer.



(It seems that only one person was there, although many have listened to the audio. It seems the link is unreliable, so here is the official link from our website. http://www.masters.edu/pulpit/series/The-Depth-of-the-Gospel-by-Paul-Washer-2010)

 2010/11/24 14:05Profile
Madefree
Member



Joined: 2010/11/7
Posts: 193
Alabama

 Re:

Thank you for clearing all of that up. I have been following this thread the past several days and haven't been able to discern why he walked away. That makes perfect sense though. I have never heard Paul Washer in person, (or at all before this past summer) But have watched him preach in many of the sermon videos that are on the internet. The different mannerisms that you mentioned I have noticed as well. While this is a bold move, given his character, it seems like an appropriate one.


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Mike Wright

 2010/11/24 14:56Profile
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

Hi dharasick, first of all welcome to the forum. Thanks for providing more insight and a better link. I have not watched this sermon yet.

I follow Paul Washer a fair bit.

You are right in saying that Paul Washer is a dramatic/emotional speaker etc. Also, he has mentioned several times in his sermons that he and his people are there after sermons (not sure whether for all sermons) to answer questions etc. So no surprise there on him spending time with the students (except for the 1 time here).

However, I think the part where you may have likely got it wrong is that if maybe Washer is looking for the outward audience's reaction. He is not one to strike me as being affected by just seeing the outward reaction of the audience in this particular case and being thus affected that he will walk off the stage. I think its more to do with the message (no more time could also be part of it). Of course, I'm just guessing here based on what I've seen of him in the past.

He has ever mentioned before that when he gives a sermon, its not like he is here and the audience is there. Its more of when he gives the sermon, he also is one of the audience and the sermon is for him also. Who knows what God puts in his heart, the burden or pain etc.

I do feel that God's hand is in this and maybe he will now be known for more than 1 sermon. He has ever 'joked/mentioned' that he is famous for only 1 sermon and I think he mentioned this when comparing himself with John MacArthur who he said gave many good sermons. (so its quite funny to me that this happened in MacArthur's Masters College...God does have a sense of humor) :)


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geraldine

 2010/11/24 14:58Profile
rainydaygirl
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Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

dharasick wrote

Quote:
Let me address the fact that he was disappointed with our reaction. Here at Masters we have 3 chapels a week, for 18 weeks. We are allowed 6 misses per semester, so often attendance is mandatory. This is not a Sunday morning church service for us. Being "forced" to be there, in addition to having a lot of schoolwork on our plate, makes the chapel audience at TMC a little different than a church. Hearts aren't always prepared. Sure this is our fault here, but as one poster made the comment, preachers shouldn't look to the outward audience's reaction as to how they are doing. TMC is a conservative Christian college. There isn't a lot of hand-raising or public outcries during singing or sermons. If Washer was expecting that, he wasn't going to get it no matter what he said.



_______

Wow not really sure what to say in response to this entire paragraph that you wrote... but If I may ask you what did you walk away from his teaching seeing? How did God use this teaching in your walk with HIM?


rdg

 2010/11/24 16:07Profile
bible4life
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

I found the video for the sermon,
http://www.masters.edu/life/chapel-highlights/?bcpid=68026363001&bclid=67832856001&bctid=680473445001


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John Beechy

 2010/11/24 17:36Profile
dharasick
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 2


 Re:

learn wrote:

Quote:
However, I think the part where you may have likely got it wrong is that if maybe Washer is looking for the outward audience's reaction. He is not one to strike me as being affected by just seeing the outward reaction of the audience in this particular case and being thus affected that he will walk off the stage. I think its more to do with the message (no more time could also be part of it). Of course, I'm just guessing here based on what I've seen of him in the past.


I think we have a misunderstanding. I am saying Washer would not look for a reaction in his sermons, not that he would. I do not think he was affected nor was it the reason for his walking off the stage.

rainydaygirl wrote
Quote:
Wow not really sure what to say in response to this entire paragraph that you wrote... but If I may ask you what did you walk away from his teaching seeing? How did God use this teaching in your walk with HIM?



Great question, sorry if there is misunderstanding. I listen to 6 sermons a week in addition to Bible classes, go to a wing small group, and a college bible study. I have a lot of truth coming at me. It's absolutely impossible to take every word I hear and apply it to my life. I focus on my church and what I learn there for the main teaching in my life. The other things such as chapel and bible classes I use in my life as guides to keep me aligned with Christ. That's where I come from in posting this. It's a challenge to not be apathetic. But keep in that our chapel is not the church.

During the sermon I also struggled with the fact that Washer had his Bible open for about 45 seconds. Our chapel is in our gymnasium, and I had a spot in the bleachers where I could see onto the pulpit. His Bible came open once near the end to read a OT passage, then it was shut again. I have been going to Grace Community Church my entire life. I'm used to preachers using their Bible's and preaching directly from them. Paul Washer doesn't have that style. While what he is saying is absolute truth, it's hard to view it as more than motivational speech on the Christianity.

With all that in mind, hopefully you understand more of where I'm coming from. What I got out of it was a further alignment with the Gospel. It's hard to not remember the bigger picture though, how different Washer's style is and how odd it was for him to just walk off. And I know this is my fault, and something I'm working on. God is always God, and the Gospel is always the Gospel.

bible4life wrote


Awesome, thanks. Students with logins can see all the videos, but I didn't know they made some public. Unfortunately, they did not include him walking off in the video.

 2010/11/24 17:57Profile
elected
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Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Quote:
But keep in that our chapel is not the church.



Honestly disagree to your idea of church brother. Wherever two or three genuine believers gather in Jesus name there is the body of Christ present.

As for Paul Washer, he is not the conventional orthodox preacher we are acustom to hear, who is very careful in dividing the word of God but lacking the fire of the Holy Spirit in his sermons. Emotionalism can be pretty bad and lead to fanaticism and all kinds of deceptions but on the other side, the fruit of the Spirit love or joy is often expressed thru emotion.

George Whitefield was a dramatic preacher and Jonathan Edwards was monotonous in his preaching but they both were on the same page as far as religious affections and their legitimate place in the christian experience.

Im bringing this subject of emotion for the simple fact that you spoke of Washer as an motivational speaker rather than a preacher and this will make him appear more like an honest enthusiast rather than a messanger of the word of God. Methodists were called enthusiasts because they were zealous for God and the salvation of souls. During the first great awakening in america Jonathan Edwards wrote a treatise on Religious Affections to defend the revival as a genuine work of God agaist the accusations to the contrary. Jonathan Edwards and his "followers" came to be known as the New Light Calvinist ministers, as opposed to the traditional Old Light Calvinist. Later on some of the old light calvinists turned unitarian and history has justified that new light calvinists were the true defenders of the Gosple.

Its a fact that whenever genuine revival is prayed down there is a great emotion exhibited among people to different degrees. Old puritans used to pray for the "gifts of tears", for those who were unconverted. You donot need tears to be saved that will be heretical but who can deny the anguish, conviction of sin, the restlessness that sinners feel when God has manifested his presence in a special way?

I got out of the subject, but my point is that the bible and history of revivals prove that "religious affections" as Edwards called them can be sound and biblical. Edwards made religious affection intellectually and theologically acceptable.

The most saintly men of God have shown a great deal of holy emotion in their devotions. David Brainerd diary is filled with examples of the so called "religious afections".

All that said, it does not mean that we are going to reverse the order and put emotion first place and the word of God in the second place, that is extremly dangerous as it leads to all kinds of fanaticisms and deceptions by evil spirits. The word of God is the light, the truth, the standard of our faith, without it we will be in darkness. We are called to walk by faith and not by feelings.

One more thing to say, i have read a story about John Knox, that once he canceled his sermon when He went up to the pulpit to preach because he did not receive any word from God. Strange isnt it, he could have very well open a bible read a text and preach but he chose not. Today he most probably will be branded as an enthusianst, fanatic, or someone lead by impressions. I think even Spurgeon was once in a similiar situation when people were expecting him to preach but he did not.


P.S. Edited


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Redi

 2010/11/24 20:26Profile
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

Ok, dharasick. Its good that you are saying Washer would not look for a reaction to his sermons and that was not the reason for his walking off stage.


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geraldine

 2010/11/24 20:31Profile
Madefree
Member



Joined: 2010/11/7
Posts: 193
Alabama

 Re:

He's not always that way, opening his Bible for only a few minutes. His sermons like "The Gift Nobody Wants" and "Heart of the Gospel" are fine examples of that. "Ten Indictments to the Church in Amerca" is another example. And he wasn't very "motivational" in the popular sense of the world in those either. His book "One True God" is loaded with Scripture by the way, if anyone's interested. That must have just been an off day.


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Mike Wright

 2010/11/24 21:02Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Quote:
He's not always that way, opening his Bible for only a few minutes



I think we are not making distinction beween teacher preachers and herald preachers.

"Teacher preachers have a defining belief that hearers should understand Scripture. Such preachers stay close to the text and explain its meaning deductively. Typically doctrinal and instructional, this preaching examines verses in logical order. Some examples of teacher preachers are John Stott,.... John MacArthur."

"Herald preachers have a defining emphasis on God's empowering of both Scripture and the preaching event itself. Though such preaching shares deductive and propositional characteristics in common with teaching, it sounds very different. Herald preachers are often dramatic in style."

These are 2 definitions i found online about different styles of preaching. I hope that helps to understand the different ministries of men of God in the body of Christ. The greatest evangelists of the 19th centery were herald preachers and they used also extemporenous preaching.

Both methods are valid and important for the bulding up of the body of Christ.




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Redi

 2010/11/24 22:14Profile





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