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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Thank God I did not get in! who knows how I would have reacted to such blatant madness and diabolical behavior.



I am sorry you didn't Robert to be honest. I am also ignorant of much of this as well but every time these things come up it reverts back to my own earlier experience in the camps of the...what's the word? What's the word for wanting to cry, scream and throw-up at the same time?

Why do these things stay with me and come right back to the forefront of thinking after such a long time now... This boasting of a pastor in being pulled over and given a police escort for being "drunk in the spirit"? This audacious spewing forth of "How blessed I am because of my discipline..." and "When the Holy Spirit shows up here, in about 20 minutes" and the blowing on people to be 'slain, the 'word of knowledge' and purple sheet's to lay on people fallen on the platform...' Or, upon reaching Heaven, "Forget all that, where's my mansion?" All this from the pulpit. Even in my utter ignorance and going along with much of what I had been led to believe still the sense that something is wrong and being chastised for up and leaving or sighing by body language. Was too ignorant in those days, was confused by the muddiness of it all to speak up.

What does this all have to do with 'prophecy'? It sure seems to come from the same well of non-sense. The things that Andrew pointed out in the article even as perhaps 'silly' I find repulsive, maybe that's the word I am looking for.

This is NOT Christianity.

Dear Todd, appreciate your giving the benefit of the doubt on issues, pointing out things we may tend to overlook...Yet I don't see any way of defending any of this nor any reason why it should not be exposed, publicly. We do not do things in secret and maybe you are right in one factor, that this is all coming after the fact. Wish to God somebody would have had the gumption to stand up in the midst of it all and cry from the depths of their heart to stop this reproach to our God and dragging the name of our Lord through the mud.

Forgive my indignation if it is misplaced, but this stuff galls me to no end.


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Mike Balog

 2004/11/4 10:18Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

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What bothered me so much about this article is that it is all opinion based (as far as I can tell). And of course Strom has just as much a right to his opinion as anyone, though I don't know how justified he is in sharing it publically. But he is accountable to the Lord for that.


Todd, Strom has been in the midst of this movement and seen and heard stuff you read in books. I am sure his reasons for leaving are not just because of women dancing in a pagan ritual but its much deeper then that, which he lists at the bottom of his article. Again and again I hear what this prophet is saying or this one.. really I want to hear from the Lord Jesus myself. I think personally the damage much of this charismatic movement has caused to the pure witness of Christ in the world is almost ir-reverisble. The whole heart-beat of SI is for God to restore something apostolic and genuine to the church in the smallest of ways.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/11/4 10:34Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Was too ignorant in those days, was confused by the muddiness of it all to speak up



When a person is hungry for God they are very vulnerable. We share somewhat of a common experience here. I recall in those days reading books by people like Benny Hinn and Roberts Lairdan and even Smith Wigglesworth and Kathryn Kuhlman. Any book I could read in which the person really seemed to walk with God I would gobble it right up. I once road a train 24 hours one way to get to a single meeting that may have lasted 3 hours. In a strange way I learned some things here and there that were profitable;but in time I began drifting away from it all. In time I started loosing my confidence in them.

Today I just feel hurt from what I see. The movement as I saw it then has radically changed into something that seems at times almost blasphemous. As a Pentecostal, I believe in the moving of the Spirit, but I just lost my faith in the reality of what I saw so many doing. I'm not the only one. Anymore I just don't talk about it. I only hope that all of the things that I thought were genuine were at least done from a pure heart. Ignorance is one thing; but if the day ever came that I truly knew I had been deceived I would be very heart broken. Nonetheless God has brought me to where I am. He used some of those teachings to get me here and I discarded the bad things. It has been quite a roller coaster ride. Thank God i am free from it all to serve Him and walk with him and not be dependent on other mens experiences.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/4 10:34Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
When a person is hungry for God they are very vulnerable. We share somewhat of a common experience here. I recall in those days reading books by people like Benny Hinn and Roberts Lairdan and even Smith Wigglesworth and Kathryn Kuhlman.


Yes that reminds me of in the bible where Paul apostles mentions of a zeal in the false apostles but zeal without knoweldge. Of course being desperate and having zeal for God are of a necissity but it needs to be led in the right paths. If I get desperate [b]enough[/b] before God He will lead me into truth (is not a correct statement). Our level of enthusism for God will not determine our being led into what is right and true, the instution of teacher, prophet, apostles, etc where there for a purpose. I am reminded of that as I was reading about Moses and He was with God in the mount and God told him you better get down there the people are going astray. Is that not a type of the church in our day. Even priests such as Aaron comprimising having some of the world and some of God, pleasing both men and God which leds to the path of idolatry and other evils. God help us.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/11/4 10:45Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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 Re:

Quote:
Is that not a type of the church in our day. Even priests such as Aaron comprimising having some of the world and some of God, pleasing both men and God which leds to the path of idolatry and other evils.



I heard a minister on some religious channel on my way back from California in early October telling a young boy something to the effect; "Are you ready for the double portion?... Do you want the double portion... keep in mind I drive a Porshe!" The Spirit of God rose up in me and I could not help but openly rebuke what I saw! As if the double portion means the kid will someday be so prosperous be will drive a ride twice as nice as a Porshe. Personally I can't take anymore of it.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/4 10:56Profile
dougkristen
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 Re:

Quote:
"Are you ready for the double portion?... Do you want the double portion... keep in mind I drive a Porshe!"



Yikes. I have too been drawn to the "love of money" over seeking Him. I recently went through some seeking the Lord and examining my heart over getting drawn to 'power' in what many different men preach. I am glad to see Andrew Strom move away some from what he was connected to in the prophetic stream. I have recently been reading a few of his books and like what he has written, but am cautious not to follow a movement, but listen to the Holy Spirit and not man. I like what was said that we need to be careful when we are hungry for God, because we are most vulnerable. We become a target for the emeny.

Grace,
Doug


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a Jesus freak

 2004/11/4 11:47Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
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 Re:


Brother Robert wrote;
"The Spirit of God rose up in me and I could not help but openly rebuke what I saw"!

Lord Jesus please unction as many of your servants as will not grieve, nor quench the Holy Ghost, to such action ... Amen

 2004/11/4 11:56Profile
Gideons
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Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re: Repent!

As for me, I don't know much about the prophetic movement and I only had one brother speak prophetically to me on one occasion. I believe that the Holy Spirit will speak to any believer, not just a chosen few. So if I come before God with cleans hand and a pure heart, he will speak to me, consistent with His Word. Perhaps not in the manner or timeframe I want but He is God and I am not.

The thing that bothers me in most of the prophetic movement is that they never say anything bad. Doesn't God hate sin? Doesn't He command us to repent? There is also the implication that God doesn't speak to the average person. Is that assumption scriptural under the new covenant? I don't think so but rather it creates a pyramid scheme of sorts (e.g. I'm more holy because I hear directly from God about this thing or that thing.)

I think the time is upon us, where the message is going to be repent for judgment is coming. The message of repentance is one most needed in the US and probably other countries as well.

Exposing sin is one of the primary works of the Holy Spirit (From John 16 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[1] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.)

Brother Andrew's continual focus on repentance is such a blessing to me. Thank God for this most precious gift. May we seek the Lord until all the fallow ground is plowed.


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Ed Pugh

 2004/11/4 13:07Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
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 Re:

If you would like to read a very balanced view of the "prophetic movement" I strongly suggest "Thus Saith the Lord?" by John Bevere. The book is a loving rebuke to the current trend of personal prophesy that is more like charismatic fortune-telling than prophecy. This is a wonderful book and I highly recommend it!
Burning,
Jeff


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Jeff

 2004/11/4 13:50Profile
dougkristen
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Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Re:

He has another excellent book, called "The Bait of Satan". Talks about forgiveness, bitterness and "offenses" we experiences from others in the church.

Grace,
Doug


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a Jesus freak

 2004/11/4 14:39Profile





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