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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The "Sin Nature"

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 Re:

Yes, David, I believe I can agree with that.

 2010/11/9 19:32
davidc
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Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Madefree
At last you come to the point. Point 11 IF SIN WERE A SINFUL NATURE, THEN: by Dennnis Carroll

11. Jesus did not become Man, with a sinful nature: Therefore, he was not tempted in all points like as we are, nor touched with the feelings of our infirmities.

And this is where your heresy lies, which grows into the false doctrine you believe and teach.

Jesus was born of a virgin, by the power of the Holy Spirt. He was on this earth perfect man and perfect God. He was without sin, had no sinful nature and committed no sins. He lived a perfect holy life on this earth, and in obedience to His Father, laid down that life for us.

How can you believe that Jesus had a sinful nature? Please explain

David


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david

 2010/11/9 19:44Profile
Madefree
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Joined: 2010/11/7
Posts: 193
Alabama

 Re:

Ok, that was unclear from me. First, I did not write the article, and second remember the title is the point
"IF Sin were a sinful nature" the article is based upon the fact that there is no sinful nature at all, and the points are founded upon a hypothetical situation. The point to that was IF. Because, if all men have a sinful nature, and Jesus became a man then either: A. He was not completely human and His life was not supernatural at all. Or B. He had the supposed "sin nature."

Just a disclaimer on my part, I do not believe in the sinful nature, nor any forms of the doctrine of Original Sin. I do not teach these and believe them to be theological fiction created by men with full heads of philosophy and hearts empty of God. Men who believe it may be saved, but the creators of such a doctrine I do not believe were converted.


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Mike Wright

 2010/11/9 19:51Profile
davidc
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Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

thanks for explaining, although, to me the sinfulness of my nature before Christ came is clearly evident to me. But of course we should not build doctrine on personal experience. Anyway, it's 2 am and time for bed.

David


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david

 2010/11/9 19:57Profile
mkal
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Joined: 2007/10/8
Posts: 49
Minnesota

 Re: The "Sin Nature"


Romans 6 (Young's Literal Translation)
1What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound?

2let it not be! we who died to the sin -- how shall we still live in it?

3are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?

4we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

Notice, the literal translation is "the sin," or in other words, the sin nature. We could also say this relates to the sin principle or the law of sin and death.

 2010/11/9 19:58Profile
Madefree
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Joined: 2010/11/7
Posts: 193
Alabama

 Re:

Have you checked the greek for that, or is that being a literal interpretation an assumption? The point of this topic is that we not trust man (Young was a man) and look to "Thus saith the LORD"


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Mike Wright

 2010/11/9 19:59Profile
mkal
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Joined: 2007/10/8
Posts: 49
Minnesota

 Re: sin nature, cont

Kenneth Wuest on the subject: “The first thing we must settle is regarding the word “sin,” does it refer here to sin as an abstraction, namely, to acts of sin committed by the believer, or to the totally depraved nature still in him? A rule of Greek syntax settles the question. The definite article appears before the word in Greek text. Here the article points back to a previously mentioned sin defined in its context. The reference is to sin reigning as king (5.21). There sin is personified since it reigns as king. But one cannot conceive of acts of sin reigning as king in the life of a person. They are the result of some dominant factor reigning as king. That can only be the evil nature still resident in the Christian. And here is the key to the interpretation of the entire chapter. Every time the word “sin” is used in this chapter as a noun, it refers to the evil nature in the Christian. Read the following verse and substitute the words “sinful nature” for the word “sin,” and see what a flood of light is thrown upon your understanding of this section of God’s Word (1,2,6,10,11,13,14,16,17,18,20,22,23).”

Other notes: In Romans 7, we see the self dependence and living under law which prevents the Holy Spirit from giving the believer victory over the sinful nature.

As far as a "Thus saith," it is a matter of having the reality revealed within us.

 2010/11/9 20:23Profile
knitefall
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Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


 Re:

yes, mKAL is on the right track,

do some interlinear study and look at where the word sin is in Rom. It usually has the word TON or TOV right in front. That means 'The Sin' and we can argue with original Scripture for a while now...

 2010/11/9 20:27Profile
Madefree
Member



Joined: 2010/11/7
Posts: 193
Alabama

 Re:

But does, "the sin" mean a sinful nature? I will look into it though. (the greek that is) What is sin? "Sin is the transgression of the law" this requires action. I have read of Wuest who John Phillips references many times, I didn't see that mentioned.

One thing I have wondered about, is that cliche
"We sin because we are sinners."

Does this mean that if someone drives too fast down the road, breaking the speed limit, it is from within? Do we speed because we are speeders? or is one a speeder because he speeds?

What I'm trying to say, what about action in sin?


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Mike Wright

 2010/11/9 20:32Profile
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re:

Quote:
That can only be the evil nature still resident in the Christian



According to Romans 6, a Christian, by definition would not have an evil nature inside him. It would have been dead when they died with Christ and were raised to life with him. If a Christian has an evil nature then what is a new creation? Now the flesh is weak, and can be tempted to Sin, but the Spirit is willing and there is a way to overcome in Jesus for he was tempted in all ways as well.


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Travis

 2010/11/9 20:34Profile





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