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 Re: Bible college test and answers

Hi Pilgrim,

No, God does -NOT- "accept us JUST AS WE ARE"! Those who proclaim that doctrine and have deceived many will have -much- to answer before God!

In a sense you're correct, because He doesn't 'accept' us just as we are, but, we ARE to APPROACH Him, just as we are, and by the transformation He makes in us, through faith unto repentence and healing, we come away from the encounter, changed forever.

Could you agree with this, or not?

 2010/11/3 16:54

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


Hello to all my Brothers and Sister and Enemies!

I have assembled thought from class and personal time with our Lord for you. I pray these nuggets will bless you all and help to understand how God expects us to live for Him:


In the midst of Christ’s council to the churches of Revelation, is the idea of Repentance. The people began to walk their lives out in a manner that was apart from total Faith and reliance in what God can provide/ already has provided. The solution to every situation where we are negating our Spirit Position IN Jesus or ‘living by the flesh,’ is always, to repent!

Repentance is Much more than turning from acts of sin. Repentance will always deal with the depth and core of the heart. We mistake confession for repentance. Confession will get you forgiveness of sins. Repentance will admit you into the Kingdom.

When repentance happens, the state of mind/ state of the heart that we continually be in, is changed. A denial of self effort and will power takes place under Biblical repentance.

You’ll never hear Jesus say a word of condemnation. If you’re hearing condemnation, either you’ve never truly repented or you’re listening to another spirit. In the Church we hear all the time, “The Holy Ghost is here to spend all of His time to point out sin in your life!” If that’s the case, Jesus’ Finished Work did not get finished.

If you feel bad after you sin, you still think that you could have done better; you have not repented. Upon repenting, you are no longer responsible for things done. AND the things you will do. While one may reap the consequences of sin in the body, God however would never count it against us. It’s the same as with doing good things.

We would reap but it certainly does not earn anything with God. The literal meaning of ‘Repentance’ is to ‘change one’s mind.’ So what about willpower? Okay, how are you going about stopping an undesirable act in your life? Alright, if it’s not by willpower then it must be about asking God to “make me a better me?” If you want to be a better YOU, you have not repented. You don’t believe the Gospel like you think you do. You don’t think God has made a good enough Plan through Jesus Crucified to totally hide you IN Him.

If God sees you, no matter how ‘good’ you become in the earth, He must KILL you and throw you in everlasting punishment. Same thing, “help me make better choices God...” This is not belonging to Biblical repentance. You say, then we have no choice! Ah! But we do! Choice comes into the picture but it is not of Law. The choice is to go about this life God’s Way or to go about it the world’s way (Salvation by works and good behavior). It is a “whosoever will... deny himself... come after Me...” choice.

Or maybe we can muster up enough strength in ourselves after Salvation? To combat a spiritual problem? Or you can just repent of self and just go God’s Way! Remember, God abolished through Jesus, the tree of good AND evil. The good in us on our own is still just as bad as the evil. If not worse!!! I think of the Pharisees and other religious rulers.

If you have not repented properly, you will think you have to confession sins everyday. And all day long. This will result in a miserable life and you may very well ultimately end up angry and shipwrecking your own Faith. John the baptist ever said, “Change your ways about how you think you have to live for God and go about attempting to get into God’s Kingdom.”

The core problem with the Church is that many have strayed away from what God offered IN Christ. Repent of that! The result of no repentance is spiritual adultery. And from that proceeds physical adultery and fornications and all manner of sins.

Jesus also said that He comes quickly. He will bear long with our stubbornness but eventually there will come a time when enough is enough. After bearing long with those erring in the Faith, our Father in Heaven must come quickly and deal with that unbelief.

It was mentioned before that the Holy Ghost does not point out acts of sins. However, the Spirit is grieved when we place our object of Faith as anything other than the Cross. Specifically, what was accomplished there. This is The Sin that the Spirit warns us of and steers us away from. When Faith is transferred to anything other than the Cross of Christ, God is angered and it must be judged.

If the believer is believing and resting in the Finished Work of Calvary, God has no legal right to punish the believer for sins. Amen! The ultimate goal of God is not to punish or harm disciples but to get them(us) back on track(Way of Calvary).

Amen, I do pray these words do not seem conflicting with Scripture. I do realize many who will take the time to read these things will see this conflicts with their theology. That is a good thing!

I love you all and pray you have an enjoyable reading or it moves you to ...why, Repentance! Shawn.

(PS Pilgrim,
Though I might say I've done personal study on what 'wrinkle' is and it will bless you to find out what it really is. Has nothing to do with sheets... Really, has all to do with when we are presented before our Lord. It's a Promise! That we will not have these blemishes and scars and things etc...)

 2010/11/3 17:01Profile

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


Here are additional nuggets I copied from an online source that seems to understand soul vs Spirit and behaviors and discipleship very well.

I've not had the time to go through all of these but they seem solid upon scanning. Enjoy:

Repentance is the outer gate of the Christian faith. (Lk.3:3; Lk.24:47; Jn.10:9)

Repentance precedes faith, but never stands alone. (Mk.1:15; Acts 20:21; Heb.6:1)

The most critical thing in the Christian walk is not faith, but repentance. It is the foundation of our faith, and everything else follows behind it. (Gal.3:23-24; Acts 2:38; Heb.6:1)

The gospel is only good news if you know the bad news first, that you yourself are no good. You do not need a doctor unless you are sick. (1Tim.1:15; Rom.7:18; Mk.2:17)

Repentance denotes the fundamental changing of one’s mind, but connotes the changing of one’s heart, and soul and life; it is more than a mere psychological act. (Acts 3:19; Ps.34:18; 2 Cor. 7.9-11)

An individual repents in the hour he realizes that he (or she) has been fundamentally wrong about everything, and that he or she is the cause of it all, and that there is nothing he or she can do about it by his or her own reason or strength without God’s mercy and power. (Job 40:4; Acts 2:36-38; Ps.40:11-13)

Repentance is total despair of one’s self and this natural world, and the awareness that only God, the real God, the same God who made heaven and earth and made us personally, can bring us hope through his personal mercy and power. (Ps.39:4-8; Ps.51:1,10; Ps.73:26)

Repentance is the confession of our sins, both to ourselves and to God, whom we have wronged. (Ps.25:11; 1Jn.1:8-10; Ps. 51.2-5)

Repentance occurs when an individual knows in the depth of his being that everything he believes, wants, thinks, feels, and does is utterly sinful and evil before God. (Isa.6:5; Rom.3:10-19; Ps.38.4-5)

The Bible says, “Man at his best state is altogether vanity.” (Psalm 39.5)

The Bible says, “Vanity of vanities all is vanity.” (Ecclesiastes 1.2)

Repentance understands three lies: The first lie is that I know God and know what he wants of me. (Ps.95:10; Rom.3:11; Jn.1:5,10)

The second lie is that I do not hate God and that I sincerely want to please him. (Ps.14:2-3; Rom.7:19; Rom.8:7)

The third lie is that I am able to do the right thing by my own reason, goodness or strength. (Lk.18:19; Col.2:8; Jn.15:5)
Repentance begins when I stop lying to myself and to God and when I realize that “all my righteousness is nothing but a filthy rag.” “Let God be true, and every man a liar. “ (Ps.139:23-24; Jer.17:9; Isa.64:6; Rom.3:4)

By nature, we can gain no true or certain knowledge of God, nor can we know his will, nor do we want to know him or obey him, nor do we intend to submit to him, nor are we capable of doing anything which pleases him. (I Cor. 2:14; Gal.5:17; Rom.7:15-24)

Jesus said, “Apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15.5)

The Bible says, “There is none that seeketh after God.” (Rom. 3.11)

“All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” (Rom. 3.23)

Many Christians experience an initial repentance, feeling sorry or guilty about something they have done, even making a firm decision to change their ways and start on a new path, but they never experience a total or heartfelt repentance and they never grow in the faith or in their walk. (2 Tim.3:7; Heb.12:17; Ps.61:2)

Many Christians believe on God and appear to be saved but they only had a sorrow of the soul; they never had a godly repentance of the heart. (Ps.78:8; Ps.66:18; Ps.51:6-8)

Many Christians today are lukewarm in their love for God, because they initially believed in God without quitting this world. They repented spiritually, but not emotionally. Consequently, they are still in love with this life. (Isa.29:13; Ja.4:8; Rev.3:15-19)

Repentance must be heartfelt and continual, not partial and occasional. (Matt.3:8-10; Ps.80:18-19; Ps.51:9-12)

All men experience a guilty conscience from time to time. They have feelings of deep remorse and regret over certain things they have thought, said, and done. But this kind of psychological or behavioral repentance is not godly sorrow. It does not lead to true repentance , faith and obedience. (2 Cor.7:9-10; Heb.9:14)

Human repentance is never heartfelt. Those who feel guilty over sin or who are determined by an act of will to change their ways are not broken by God’s Holy Spirit in heartfelt repentance. (Heb.3:10; Job 42:5-6; Ps.51:17)

Many people are raised in church with a strong moral and willful mentality, believing that if they just try harder they can please God. But God calls this sin. Human goodness or morality is not the goal. Jesus Christ himself is the goal and only he can perform with His Spirit what he requires. (Col.2:20-23; Gal.3:1-3; Phil.2:12-13)

Godly repentance, which is heartfelt, should not be confused with a psychological or behavioral act or decision, which is mere emotionalism, mysticism, legalism, will-religion and hypocrisy; true repentance always leads to “righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Ja.1:17; Ja.3:17; Rom.14.17)

Feeling guilty about sin and trying to change our behavior is not repentance, but is actually evil, because we are just trying to hide our sin from God and establish our own human righteousness. The only reason we try to hide our sin from God is because we do not believe he loves us unconditionally. (Gen.3:7-10; 1Jn.1:8-10; Ps.32:3-6)

What we usually think of as sin, the breaking of the commandments, is just superficial. The deeper sin is establishing our own righteousness. God hates self - righteousness and is waiting for us to realize that we have nothing to offer him. “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Matt.15:18-20; Matt.23:28; Lk.5:32)

”If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (Jn.1:9)

Jesus erased the line between good and evil. All human goodness is evil. (Matt.23:27; Lk.18:19; Isa.64:6)

False religion has taught Christians that we must change our behavior or God is going to punish us. But true repentance occurs when we realize our whole thinking about what God is like was totally wrong and we understand that God is not out to get us, but instead he wants to give every person an abundant life. “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” (Rom.2:4; 2 Pet.3:9; Jn.10:10-11; Mk.2:27)

Repentance is a fundamental change in our thinking when we realize we pictured God completely wrong, that God does not want us to work at Christianity and that he loves us unconditionally. This is what we repent of, that we did not know this. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matt.3:2; Rev.2:4-5;Matt.11:28-29)


 2010/11/3 17:20Profile

 Re: Bible college test and answers

To Compton,

I think its important to note that a self-annihilating concept of obedience can actually make a sincerely submissive Christian more frustrating to an employer then a slightly defiant unbeliever.

I smiled when I read this, as I'm sure I've been both at one time or another.

You seem to mean that an employer doesn't want to have to do all the employee's thinking for him, nor, not to be helped by his practical suggestions for improvements.

I have a few questions, not so much about the appearance of submission, but, of how God views a wholehearted sacrifice of time and talent for an employer.

These creative problems don't get solved by mere submission; they require imagination, optimism, determination, opinions, wills and egos.

Hmm. 'egos'? Is a Christian allowed an ego? Doesn't it get a little bruised, in the battle for supremacy in one's place of employment? Or, is that precisely why you mentioned it - that a 'business' requires a person to give of their deepest treasures, to be a 'profitable' servant?
Such a business requires everyone from top down to selflessly contribute freely their emotional and creative labor without worrying how to quantify everything for trade.

However, God can, and does, measure everything, and knows our motives.

Coloss 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Without doubt, no employer can enjoy his employee's best attention and endeavour, unless he values the person first, and his contribution as flowing from the man, but could there be a danger of giving too much to an employer, and not enough to God? Or is it, as Paul Washer asserts, possible to do everything God has stated in scripture that He expects of us?

Is what you're recommending here, compatible with 'Thou shalt love the Lord your God will all... (etc), or, could there be a conflict between 'loving' God, and 'loving' man?
(Sadly, I think many churches borrowed that metaphor, wherein a Christian is not valuable for who he is, but how he produces.)

Carter Conlon tackles this in more than one sermon. I remember 'Seeing Through the Hands of Jesus', is one. He paused at the 'trees' (walking), and made all kinds of things from them!

I think the 'faith' an employer sees, is not so much in productivity - although it can be if his other employees are lazy, or careless - but the internal core of truth in the Christian (of which the Christian is less aware than the employer), which affects his attitude to honesty and integrity, whatever the cost.

If an employer only values the employee for his contribution, eventually it will catch up with one of them somehow, I think.

 2010/11/3 17:36

 Re: Bible college test and answers

Hi knitefall,

I'm not going to quote all the quotes you've posted, to reply and pick them apart, but think. THINK! How can a person repent, unless they believe what God has shown them about their need of Him?

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent,

Iow, because of what they had HEARD, the men BELIEVED there was something they could DO to improve their condition.

 2010/11/3 17:47

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


Oh yes, I agree. A brother and I engaged in an arguement over what comes first. I kept saying they both have to happen at the same time. I mean, Faith in something other than self is repenting of your original way of thinking.

But if that's all you got out of it, you missed the point.

 2010/11/3 18:01Profile

 Re: Bible college test and answers

But if that's all you got out of it, you missed the point.

That was all I wished to reply to, because I'm utterly bewildered by the doctrine which says we do anything, prior to having been stirred up enough by the God, to respond to Him. Truthfully, I only read so far. I'll catch up later. :-)

 2010/11/3 18:28

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


I'm sorry to hear that. Would you know anything about sinless perfection? Or about predestination(no choice)?


And yes, we do something. We make a choice. We are born under sin laws. And the only choice is to stay the way we are or go God's Way.

If repentance is shallow, fruits of the Spirit would also be. If you want to go on into the depths(heights) of Christ, it requires a deep, true repentance. Most of the Church never would think twice about this but a disciple will kick and scream all the way and frag feet trying to do his or her own thing w/o deep Biblical repentance.

So if you notice this in your life, check your Faith. A shallow Christian will blame and cuss God for "taking their mother" or letting the dog die. Basically, if anything goes not their way, they complain because they have not died to self yet.

It's not popular and people make excuses all the time to not follow as a disciple. Folk would rather just show up sunday morning and say, "Ok, bless me Lord..." then go eat and laugh it up. Then the slightest problem... they backslide their Faith so quick- because the Lord never really was able to make that person His own Possession like Moses said.


 2010/11/3 18:56Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


"Hmm. 'egos'? Is a Christian allowed an ego? Doesn't it get a little bruised, in the battle for supremacy in one's place of employment? Or, is that precisely why you mentioned it - that a 'business' requires a person to give of their deepest treasures, to be a 'profitable' servant?"

You've touched on some important questions here. I would love to explore these in an ongoing discussion, in another thread. Let me know if this area sounds interesting.

To me the idea that business is just about profit, and ego is just about self, are both assumptions I would like to agree with and at the same time disagree with. I agree that these are common worldly assumptions, but I believe there is a "way out" for the Christian. This is important because a Christian can avoid neither business nor ego...not in this life at least.

I am also noticing that many pagans in the new economy are questioning their traditional concepts of business as they search for more human meaning in the unavoidable task of work, while the Christian community is lagging in the discussion, always content to just play the social critic. I think it goes to our talent for being against things without being for anything.

Why are we always against things? We are prisoners of groupthink, wherein it is safer to eliminate everything there is to believe in except platitudes and truisms, rather then risk being wrong.

Now it is important to recognize this discussion isn't really directed to churches, or the Church per se. Neither is it directed to the business community, or the government, or any other institution suffering from groupthink. It is directed at the individual conscience who must answer to God.

Because when we learn to stand for something as individuals, not as churches, businesses, schools, governments.... maybe we take our first step in learning the correct purpose of those earthly human institutions, and can imagine how they are not automatically corrupt, but made so through corrupt thinking.


Mike Compton

 2010/11/3 19:20Profile

 Re: Bible college test and answers

I'm sorry to hear that. Would you know anything about sinless perfection? Or about predestination(no choice)?


Brother, I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at.

'I'm sorry to hear that'. To hear what?

What has sinless perfection go to do with my reply, or predestination?

Is it possible you mis-read what I wrote?

 2010/11/3 20:09

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