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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy

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 Re:

It means worthy to be revered. With that in mind, I think only the Lord is qualified to be called Reverend.

Titles only serve one purpose and that is to divide the sheep from the "more honored sheep".


http://jesusourallinall.blogspot.com/2009/07/should-we-use-title-reverend-or-pastor.html

 2010/10/3 15:14









  maybe not fair of me.

Jimmy,
maybe thaT wasnt fair of me, though i have to tell you, your thesis, flinging the "heresy" mud pile at a brother positively stank of ego, the flesh, religioustic pride, my previous comment might not have been fair.

i dont know what you been thru in life. i dont know how hard you been crushed, laid low in this tourney of life, but may i make two suggestions, actually two suggestions and one comment.

first, have you read "Life of Brainerd"?

i mean the WHOLE thing?...even the first long half of his diaries, the long part where this lonely struggling saint bemoans his wretched state and life....very lonely.

if you say, yes neil i read that....maybe read it again.

second, must we all always use "christianese" when communicating with one another? You know what i'm talking about, all those purty lil terms they teach one in seminary, etc. Why cant people of the Way learn to just talk, everyday talk? that way, when we meet others, who dont KNOW those terms, wont FEEL like they aint in the same "club"?...and we CAN pluck a few out the fire?

and my comment is this, when i was reading your essay, well meaninged as it may have been constructed, do you know who it reminded me of immeidately?

Job's three "well meaninged" friends.

i'm serious, no insult intended, that's the first thing that came into my heart. Job's buddies.

God bless you Jimmy, i'm outta here, neil

 2010/10/3 15:14









 Re: maybe not fair of me.

I was thinking that the name of the thread really turns things upside down.

Maybe a better name would have been:

Coming Out of the False Religious System: The Heresy of Man's System(s)

Yet, "Church" today has been equated with the big building and organization with many programs that "enrich a Christians life" and to be sure, some of them do. I don't want to be unfair. There are precious saints in the system, I should say in an organization, because somehow they have kept the system out of their heart and they are ministering life to their fellow brothers and sisters.

Anyway, by the very title of the thread, it implies that this is the place where Christians SHOULD be going to.

Hence the title, "Coming Out of The Church".

Continuiing...Christians should be following the Holy Spirit's leading in their life, but because of all the static interference of what many are being taught, they cannot hear the Lord's voice.

If the Holy Spirit is leading someone to stay in an organization, then who am I to say NO, you must leave? I never try to persuade someone to leave organized Christianity if they are happy there. That is demonic. If people have valuable and edifying relationships, you should not be tearing them away from them.

Most people coming out of what you call Church are poor, parched souls and they see themselves as just trying to find the Church (people not building). They are coming out of something that they do not recognize as the Church (doesn't jive with what they read in their Bible or feel in their spirit.)

 2010/10/3 15:32
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

What about His call to "come out of her, My people..." (Rev. 18.4).



A fine question to ask. Unfortunately though, this verse which has been used as a rally cry over the years to support the idea of dividing fellowship and withdrawing from the local church is in my estimation, a fine example of a bad use of Scripture. There is simply no exegetical basis for this. The cry of this passage is for the saints of God to separate themselves from the world and its system. That is, they are to have nothing to do with it. To use it in another context, that is, to separate oneself from other born again Christians is grasping for straws.

Indeed, if such an application were relevant, I think John would've invoked it over some of the Churches we read about in Revelation 2-3. In those Churches, there was all manner of corruption and falsehood being perpetuated. Here is just a list of the problems we read about in these churches:

Ephesus: They lost their love for the Lord.
Pergamum: Some ministers there are leading others into idolatry and sexual immorality. Other ministers are conquering others in their ministry, presumably, creating the role of senior pastor.
Thyatira: A "Jezebel" who calls herself a prophetess is leading others into sexual immorality and idolatry.
Sardis: A largely spiritually dead church.
Laodicea: A lukewarm church that thinks it is well off.

Five of the seven churches in these chapters, we find some of the worst stuff imaginable going on. Some of these Churches seem to be fully corrupt. Others have a mixture of those who are corrupt and some who are doing well. Now, at this time does the Lord tell any within these Churches, especially ones with faithful members, "to come out of her my people?" Absolutely not. The Lord calls these Churches to answer for what is going on, and correct themselves before He takes corrective action upon them Himself.

But never once is the call issued for those who are faithful and without corruption to just outright abandon those who are corrupt. Indeed, such would be unbiblical, and contrary to proper Church discipline. For even those who are in error, as gross as their error might be, we are still to regard them as brethren for whom Christ died. And only if those who are in clear error refuse to repent of their sin can we regard them as something else altogether.

Quote:

God never ordained the denominatinal system in the first place.



Agreed. But remember brother, in Corinth there were not only those who were saying that they were of Paul, Apollos, and Cephas, but there were also those who were becoming denominational by saying they were, "of Christ." As Watchman Nee correctly pointed out, it is just as erroneous to start a denomination centered in Christ as it is around other hero of the faith. I believe many of those who say they are "the remnant" are doing just that.

Quote:

THAT's true assembling: being fit together so that each individual part is functioning in the capacity the designer had in mind for it when he made it, and so becomes a vital part of a beautiful whole.



Yes, in order for the body to function as it should, it is necessary for nothing to be "out of joint." But the reality of our time is that the body doesn't always function as it should, and is frequently out of joint. And it is my estimation that we are still waiting for the body to become a mature man and attain unto the unity of the faith. So, until that time, unfortunately, we will see things working at less than an ideal level. But, refusing to gather in local fellowship with other Christians, as some on here do, is not a solution to this problem.

Quote:

Just because you have a hundred or a thousand Christians in a big... "box" does not mean they are assembled.



To use your model car analogy, this may be the case, but you have to start somewhere. And we'll never get started unless we first meet face to face.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/3 18:12Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It means worthy to be revered. With that in mind, I think only the Lord is qualified to be called Reverend.



And all those that live godly in this life as well.

I shall have to dare to say that many revere Brother Ravenhill. And there is nothing wrong with that.

There are a lot of things that we are afraid to touch, especially our callings. We are somewhat scared to death to actually say, "My calling is an Evangelist" or that "God uses me in the working of miracles".

What is wrong with us? Paul was not ashamed of his calling and made his calling known to all. But we shy away as if it's the humble way to go. Yet it's a false humility. It's not Gods' humility. Jesus knew who He was. John knew that he was a preacher which declare the way of the Lord, but we think that by saying what God has called us into is taking the glory. If we don't walk in it, there won't be any glory for Him. Even the prophets under a lesser covenant were more bolder than we by saying, "If I be a prophet of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you".

Just thinkin....

 2010/10/3 18:18
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

The real local church may just be the one that is not in the yellow pages.



I agree. Just because they hang a sign on the door that says Church does not mean they are. There are plenty of places that meet that are full of unregenerate people that call themselves a Church. But I'm not talking about such people.

My definition of what constitutes a local Church is legitimately saved group of people who have committed themselves to regularly assembling together for the purpose of being built up in the faith, and furthering the gospel together. And it is my conviction that so long as there are legitimately saved people in your area, that you should assemble with them and do these very things, no matter how imperfect your assembling might be.

To refuse to fellowship together with those who are really saved, and live within proximity to you, is nothing less than outright error, and without any Biblical support whatsoever.

Christians are made to make other Christians, and to fellowship with other Christians. Some of you who say they are the faithful remnant of God, sadly, are doing neither.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/3 18:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What about His call to "come out of her, My people..." (Rev. 18.4)



Yes, what about it?

Just what is the "unclean thing" that was not to be touched?

Many have looked at this passage as referring to a religious system and you know there is some micro truths in that. But let me present another thought. Could it be possible that Jesus is speaking about our flesh?

Don't jump the gun, it's just a thought. Babylon is man's attempt to reach God, a fleshly idea that brings only confusion because Jesus is the only way into the holy of holies.

Touch not the unclean thing. Man's attempt by means of the flesh to reach God.

Just a thought.

 2010/10/3 18:32
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Do I not rightly guess that you are a professional clergyman with a salaried position in the Industrial Church



WeirdLarry, your guess would be wrong. I work 55 hours a week between two jobs. Outside of that, I help lead one cell group at my church, while being involved with two others. When I can, I participate in street evangelism, and type up essays (some short and some long) for my two Christian websites, and some short thoughts I post here online.

One day I believe the Lord has called me to plant a Church, but that I will do so mostly, if not entirely, bi-vocationally. But that time is not yet.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/3 18:38Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

However, in loving it, I am one of those that don't go to Church.



You are a curious sort of creature snuf. I enjoyed reading your post though. :-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/3 18:40Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

quote]* The prosperity gospel, teaching that godliness is a means of gain. Yet for all of these problems that existed in the Church then, never once do we find anybody ever instructed to withdraw their fellowship from an intentionally gathered local assembly of the saints. Not once.[/quote

Oh really. I beg to differ.

I Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.



No doubt. But that doesn't mean we are supposed to abandon the local Church altogether. We should definitely refuse to fellowship with those who are false prophets.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/3 18:42Profile





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