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Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:
Naked? What bible are you reading?



2Sa 6:20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, "How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!"

Sorry Scott you have to read through to the end to get the full story - thought this was pretty common knowledge or I would have explained more clearly - my bad.

Quote:
I just find it ironic that you can't take your own advise:



Sorry you just aren't making very much scene and I am not sure what you are talking about - I myself don't krump dance and never have, and I personally think it is silly and ridiculous. If you are talking about me refusing to condemn people for the way they choose to worship God even though I many not agree with it or like it, you are are barking up the wrong tree - I will never do that. If you want to condemn them that's your own business you can take it up with them directly, but I warn you prepare to live a spiritual life that is barren and childless.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2010/10/4 1:18Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: dont do that Jimmy

Quote:
so grow some stones and be a man.



Come on now. Agree or disagree with him, that comment was pretty borderline. There are more than just guys reading this thread. I honestly think that kind of lingo is uncalled for.

 2010/10/4 4:13Profile









 Re: House Churches ?vs? thee Apostate Machine

Though it has not been posted outright, due to Pilgrim777's response to Yours Truly, it will now be done for the record.

It really doesn't matter where we meet nor our protocol of assembly, so long as Jesus Christ remains central at the beginning, end, and everything done between.

It isn't the form that God is concerned with, but our hearts.

The church is not to be about physically seperating from the world(ly thing called church) completely, but not becoming worldly nor taking part in the godlessness of it.

We MUST let our light so shine before men that they may see the glory of our Father; but how many are hiding under a bushel basket?

Hey you reading this, are you one of these basket cases?
If the fire is actually there, the basket will be consumed.
If not, it's time to get one on one with your Maker who holds our very breath in His hands.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Pilgrim,

What was meant but not stated (as well), is that the purpose of the church is not seperation but growing into Jesus Christ, conforming to him.

The reasons (that i see) the churches we read about almost always started near or within the Jewish assemblies was three-fold:

1.) Not only was it Paul and the other apostles custom custom to observe Shabbat there (just like Jesus), but Paul's emphasis was "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

2.) This is where (in those days,) all people who feared our One True God tended to meet, whether they actually knew Him or not.

3.) The churches emphasis was about growth in every concievable area of life in the living,
-and in this is not meant synagogue, temple, courtyard or home-
raising up the Body of Christ to influence and infiltrate/convert every venue of human activity.

Bravely running away
and forming some little cliche'
of what was never Jesus emphasis
in saying "go ye and make disciples"
may feel right,
but is merely exercising
the vanity of our own minds.
____________________________________________________________

Dear Private Kind of Guy,

Now it's understood what the Lord meant telling me that we have alot more in common than i thought. Even though this life outwardly was, at one stretch of this life, been unacceptable to the outwardly pious conformers towards what others thought was acceptable in God's eyes, He blessed me more than all of them put together. They distained my presence and God miraculously working things out in this life -- be it healing, finances, relationships, revelation, etc. i, out of all who were comparing themselves to me, deserved less than nothing. . .
. . . but believing God? That changes everything.

Sad to say, most of those have since fallen by the wayside or are in the grips of deadness.

Even sadder, is that i am not interceeding for them and praying their blessins from God as i ought. Though that is changing, i am still falling short.

Your handle or name can be placed right beside mine anytime.




Now unto Him who has made the way for us into life more abundant here and life everlasting through conformity to His immortal image according to the will of our Father
be the wealth of all glory, honor, praise, might, and dominion now and forever.

Bow down in worship and service to Him alone.



God Bless you all,
gregg

 2010/10/4 6:47









 Re:

Planetheus,

Quote:
1.) Not only was it Paul and the other apostles custom to observe Shabbat there (just like Jesus), but Paul's emphasis was "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."



I sure hope you are not HRM. Hebrews Root Movement.

The point is that homes allow participation and "organizing" Christianity into a hiearchical structure with a CEO and board of directors is only conducive to "spectatorship". It is more conducive in a "participatory" environment to "grow into Christ" than it is in a "spectator" environment.

The Church is a living, breathing organism, not an organization. When you put lots of men's rules around a living organism, you kill constrict it, cut off it's oxygen supply and eventually kill it.

Try running your family (if you have one) like a typical church organization, today. You will demoralize and discourage your wife and children. There will be no free expression, creativeness or spontaneity for fear of ruining your program and breaking your rules. Your kids will grow up very dysfunctional, just like the present religious system.

Quote:
The church is not to be about physically seperating from the world(ly thing called church) completely, but not becoming worldly nor taking part in the godlessness of it.



So, let me get this straight. Don't separate from a worldly church, yet at the same time don't become worldly and don't take part in any of the godlessness. What is the opposite of a worldly church and is it ok if we are a part of that church?

Sad, that we have become so anestathized to sin in the church that now we just expect worldliness and godlessness. How worldly and godless should it be before you would counsel us to leave?

Would love to tackle, in another thread, the present Hebrew Roots Movement in Christianity and the notion that WE must all return to our Hebrew Roots. But not now.

 2010/10/4 8:48









 Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy



"This list could go on and on, and many other ills could be multiplied. Yet for all of these problems that existed in the Church then, never once do we find anybody ever instructed to withdraw their fellowship from an intentionally gathered local assembly of the saints. Not once. What instead do we find? We find the Lord and His apostles instructing the saints to do the hard thing, and work out the difficulties that existed amongst them."


Thanks for quoting this again, which I noticed first time round. I think I mentioned 1 Cor 6 in error. What I had in mind was this from Paul: 1 Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 BUT NOW I HAVE WRITTEN UNTO YOU NOT TO KEEP COMPANY, IF ANY MAN THAT IS CALLED A BROTHER BE A fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; WITH SUCH AN ONE NO NOT TO EAT.


KJ, I appreciated your synopsis, but am quite distressed by this part:

'... You believe with all of your heart because of these things, the Lord has called you out of the regular and frequent fellowship of the saints in your locality, so that you can be alone, experiencing only fellowship through the internet or through a special trip to a SermonIndex.net style revival conference. But I must say, standing upon the Scriptures while doing so, there simply is no basis for such a call as you have imagined yourself to have experienced. It is entirely without apostolic precedent, to which some of you because of the error that lies within your heart, engage in some reckless exegesis in an attempts to justify where you are.'


If you know these people personally, I hope you have quietly, privately, talked to them about your concerns for their spiritual welfare, and enquired as to whether your impression of how little face to face fellowship they have, is actually as you imagine it to be, BEFORE you have written against them in public. I'm sure you think you could name some who fit the bill, but I suspect if you do your reseach, they are not as isolated as you imagine.

I for one have no intention of writing on the internet about how much time I spend with other Christians, as if there is something extra-spiritual about mentioning it publicly. I believe it's more spiritual to discuss it not at all. You can have very little idea whether I - or many of us - are bringing people to Christ, or giving Him the pre-eminence in our lives, or fellowshipping with other Christians (perhaps in a family group for lack of a wider community), because we probably don't want to draw attention to ourselves by mentioning how God is using us.

As for SI and SI conferences as a place of the only fellowship we attend in person, and that that is not enough, please tell me... were missionaries like CT Studd, and Mary Slessor, who evangelised in a pioneering way, out of fellowship with other Christians, or God, because they were physically alone?

Your whole post was far more of a legitimate commentary on where you are (as a Christian), personally, than your unsubstantiated claims (that those who cannot find a local body of believers in which to function meaningfully several times a week), proves those brethren ARE in error.

It is no surprise (to me), knowing your heart for church planting and evangelism, that you have been called by God to live through a very painful learning curve about what it means to be a pastor. T Austin-Sparks mentions the same pain in almost everything I've read by him. But, being a pastor is just one way in which God uses members of the body. Many are called to be completely out of sight - invisible - profoundly important organs - without which the body would cease to function altogether. But that means they are working round the clock - just like you - on the tasks God has given them behind the (public) scenes.

Only some functions are all about visible service, but for everyone, there is always a need for self-care and regular maintenance to ensure the continuing ability to function. It's at this point that you seem to be saying the only way a Christian can look after their own spiritual health, is by attending a meeting of local 'believers', regardless of what is being taught there as biblical truth (whether from the Bible or not), regardless of the direness of the music, lack of prayer fellowship or effectiveness of prayer or prohibition on moving in the gifts of the Spirit, and, regardless of the unaddressed sin being enjoyed by members of the congregation from the senior pastor and his elders, to the most vulnerable new adherent.

How I know it's time to stop exposing myself to hypocrisy and false doctrine on regular basis, is when I literally feel physically nauseated at the thought of going back.

The fact is... if a person is going to set himself up - or allow himself to be set up as a leader with a title like pastor - he is opening himself to flock-members comparing him to Jesus. He has himself to blame if he falls short most of the time, because he should have spent far more time allowing God to check him out in the depths of his heart. He should have known that the moment he claimed to be something in God, the testing would start, both from the accuser of the brethren, and by God proving him through new experiences. Thankfully, God doesn't call everyone to the same named ministry, but, the same principles apply to all who will serve Him obediently.

For those who are the Lord's, God is never done showing us how much more like Jesus we could be. To acknowledge that as a preliminary, is the beginning of wisdom. What is truly amazing is, that despite the changes going on in the background life of the minister, God is able to use him for His glory in a public way, and for the furtherance of His kingdom in the lives of others, AT THE SAME TIME.

What those of us who aren't called to be pulverised within the 'IC' would like from those of you who are, is the kind of respect YOU think YOU deserve for being faithful to your calling. Otherwise, none of us are better than the 'Gentiles'.

Matt 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.




God bless you, brother. 'It's a sair fecht', (It's a sore fight.) as we say in Scotland.

 2010/10/4 9:20









 Pilgrim777

by pilgrim777 on 2010/10/4 4:48:29

Planetheus,

Quote:
1.) Not only was it Paul and the other apostles custom to observe Shabbat there (just like Jesus), but Paul's emphasis was "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."



I sure hope you are not HRM. Hebrews Root Movement.
------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, never heard of it, and i'm not much of an advocate towards 'movements' per se either. In those things, people often put human objective and experiences in front of God's purposes. (idolatry)

i'm not for man's heirarchies as you prolly already know.

My home runs in opposition to that, and better than what any dictated effort could ever do. Praise God!
____________________________________________________________

As for as worldliness goes, most do not even realize how taken in by it they are already. Sadly, those who think that by changing outward things often don't ever get to the heart of the matter: How much of what i affirm and believe is actually Bible and how much is someone elses contrived notion or residual traditionalisms?

We should all remain back with our Root/Branch/Vine and go (with Him) from there.

Outward efforts to change things more often than not are only that, and usually the efforts of the flesh.

OK, let's get this straight. Everybody is tainted by the world. We live in it. This carries over into our faithfulness to God according to how much it has been in effect in our life.

We must get down to the heart of the matter instead of thinking that outward changes will somehow make us different inside.


What do i suggest?

More of the book of James: all 5 chapters.
(take 5 and call me in the morning.)


All i've been saying is let's look at ourselves before we blame things that don't seem right around us.. Every thing that becomes a problem to us is because we ourselves have flaws that need correcting first.

God Bless,
g

p.s. Tackle HRM? Have at it if that's your thing.

 2010/10/4 9:50









 Re: Pilgrim777

It is now noted you are questioning what i mean by: the world.

The world = whatever is not of God.

i never meant one should become full participant system.

Go in there to bring out is the emphasis.
There are tares everywhere and thinking that by making a few outward changes is going to change this is wrong.

Even Jesus has his Iscaroit<---(the word loosly translated means "sword bearer).

To share compatriotism is one thing.
Being a light is another.

IF one thinks that God is not bringing us out, they will take matters into their own hands. There will come the time when the left foot of fellowship comes, as in the first church, but don't run away just because of a notion that they will taint you more.
How strong is our faith in God?
Who's running things anyway?
(Will one credit (aka:glorify) the devil or believe in God?)

Peace,
gregg


edited: thoughts added towards clarity

 2010/10/4 10:11









 Re:

Alive-to God writes........

"I for one have no intention of writing on the internet about how much time I spend with other Christians, as if there is something extra-spiritual about mentioning it publicly. I believe it's more spiritual to discuss it not at all. You can have very little idea whether I - or many of us - are bringing people to Christ, or giving Him the pre-eminence in our lives, or fellowshipping with other Christians (perhaps in a family group for lack of a wider community), because we probably don't want to draw attention to ourselves by mentioning how God is using us."

Very astute comment. I think Jimmy also mentioned that his Pastor gets up at 3am and works until 10pm, thus deservinfg a large salary? Anyway, not interested in the hours or the salary, just wondering how anyone knows what time he gets up at? I have found in my walk that you never know much about the dearest of saints. There are so many on this site even that I have no clue what they do or how many hours that they work, because they only ever talk about Jesus, not about themselves. If one truly gets up at 3am, then that left hand should keep the right hand from knowing that, otherwise that one has already had his reward. And the reward? The honor of men.

Alive-to God, your a good example of me not knowing much about people's background, a fellow Scotsman eh? And here in Kansas it is a braw bricht, moonlict, nicht the nicht, yer aw richt, de ye ken? :) ............brother Frank

 2010/10/4 10:58









 Re:

I am not sure what David's dancing has to do with this thread. I am trying to understand how it is, but just not there yet.

Ok, back on topic.

Structure does have something to do with things. Man's structure is not really conducive to the "preeminence" of Christ or freedom of expression by all saints.

Why? Because it is man's structure and therefore the center of it is man and man's programs and agenda.

That's all I'm saying.

What is conducive to organic growth? My analogy of a family. Run your family like a CEO and you will demoralize and discourage the members because your wife and children will surely not be participants. The religious kids will love it, the other kids will leave home as soon as they can.

In the Church, we don't value the fact that ALL members have the Holy Spirit. The person up front on the stage or platform or whatever you want to call it, does not have a BIG Jesus and everyone else has a little Jesus.

God is too big for one man and that is why He has chosen to express Himself through His Body. His Body functions much better in a participatory environment.

Yes, structure does have something to do with the health of the Church. Not everything, but not anything, either.

Now, I have seen dictators (brothers who bogart meetings) in house churches, too. But, in a participatory environment he can be confronted in love about his quenching of the spirit in others. In Man's system, you know going in what the ground rules are and you would not do this. You sit and listen and they talk to you.

It does all come down to what is in our heart. If what is in our heart is "I, Me, My", then we will create something that feeds "I, Me, My". If what is in our heart is JESUS and Others then that is the environment that we will look for.

It's as simple as that and that is why Christians are leaving the "I, ME, MY", and looking for JESUS and Others (that are looking for HIM).

We use the Bible as a rule book and don't really see how the Church is functioning and knit together in love (not activities and programs).



 2010/10/4 11:05









 Re:

Alive-to-God and Appolus,

Your posts are very edifying. Religious people know how to let people know about their "good" works.

For instance:

"The Lord gave me some great revelation last month, while I was fasting for two weeks and I would like to share it with you".

Ok, great, but why mention the fasting. Because, emphasis was intended to be on the fasting, not the revelation or the sharing.

Not unto us O Lord, not unto us, but unto Thy Name give glory, for Thy mercy and for Thy truth's sake.

Even so the tongue is a little member and boasteth great things. James 3:5

God does not want us to be insecure or feel insignifant. We must get our security from knowing Him and all of our significance must come from Him not man or what man thinks. Otherwise, we will be like the waves tossed to and fro.

 2010/10/4 11:19





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