Hi RussFor clarification:If we conclude from your article that predestination, foreknowledge and election are corporate - for the church, then Romans 8.30 - "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified"-- presents this church as already called, justified and glorified. All the verbs are in the past tense.What thinkest thou?David
_________________david
Good question, here are some thoughts DavidThis is talking about a group/ the church being justified as God's covenant people. The past tense probably just refers to the certainty of God accomplishing His plan in the elect corporate body. Of course, this body is made up of individuals, but the individuals derive election benefits from the group and more specifically from the corporate covenant head that they are joined to by faith (Christ). Corporate election in no way discounts individuals, but rather makes the group primary and the individual secondary based on his or her connection with the group. It is also interesting to note that all of the language in Rom. 8:30 is plural (corporate) in nature. When we talk about individuals in justification and glorification( both go hand in hand), the benefits have not been fully realized while we are still on earth, because we have not stood before the judgement seat yet.Here's a good analogy:Just as the tomatoes on your garden vine are at different stages of development, and will ripen in their time, the Vine supports their growth and development from inception to full maturity. The full process for the plant (corporate) is to grow tomatoes, so His plan was for us to ripen and mature according to this process, as long as we remain in Him (Jn. 15:4). Paul is describing the process by which "tomatoes" grow, planned by God from start to finish. Does that mean that you individualized each tomato when you planted the vine? Hardly, but you knew the process you wanted the plant to complete--we are the fruit on His vine. Christ has reached "maturity" and has been glorified--some of us just haven't yet completed our journey to glorification. thanks, Russ