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Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
If God wishes for all men to be saved, why would the Spirit open the eyes of some and *not* open the eyes of others?



Can we say that God does not open the eyes of all? Paul says all are without excuse. They have the witness of Creation, their own lives and frailty, their conscience, in addition to the witness of Christianity and the general witness of religion and spirituality to motivate them to consider eternity and the afterlife. I believe God gives this understanding and opportunity to all and most choose to reject it. Knowledge or having your eyes opened does not seem to give that special benefit, anyway, as many who have been Christians for years, with a thorough knowledge of God and the Scriptures, are still turning their backs to him and walking away. The "special benefit" comes when you walk in whatever light you are given. But, I do not doubt that enlightenment is a joint thing that involves both man and God.

 2010/9/29 17:39Profile









 Re:

Yes, I see your point. We are ALL without excuse. Let God be true and every man a liar. No man will be able to stand before the Lord and blame Him for their eternity in hell because he was elected to hell and had no say in it.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

This verse clearly states that God will judge everyone according to their works. He will not judge anyone because they were determined by HIM to be non-elect. Else, why have a judgment for them since they were judged already before they were born.

Yes, ALL men will be without excuse.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. (so they are without excuse).

If the grace of God which brings salvation has appeared to all men, and it has not saved all men, then there must be a missing ingredient that falls on man's shoulders. Jn 1:12.

 2010/9/29 18:18









 Re:

Quote:
Snuf,are you a Calvinist? What you are trying to say is that the spirit(God)opens the eyes of some and not others.The God I serve does not select some for salvation and others not.This is not LOVE.Does my love for my fellow man tell me by scripture to select whom to love.Even if I had knowledge that you would never be saved I would still love you.Jesus himself said that we had to become like a child.I am sorry that I am not as mature as you,but maybe it would do you some good to remember where you came from.

Perhaps a little discernment from you would be in order Brother.

I do not consider myself to be "Mature", I consider myself to be a little child who is constantly needing, and I don't need to remind myself where I came from, I have an adversary that reminds me of that almost every other day.

As for Calvinism, I really don't know who he is. I believe he was one of the reformers and I think he touts the OSAS teaching and predestination. Predestination I can grasp, but OSAS is pretty hard to comprehend. If I am having a hard time believing that I am saved now, how much more difficult would it be to believe in OSAS.

Quote:
The God I serve does not select some for salvation and others not.

Are you ready to receive the word brother?

Here it is, read it carefully like your reading the fine print of a legal document.

Acts 2:47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed.



 2010/10/15 22:32









 Re:

Quote:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed.



Have you ever done a word study on this particular passage? Especially a topical one regarding the current situation and even more so on the translation of the word rendered here as "ordained". If you looked deep into it, and especially into the same place this same word in Greek is used in other places in the New Testament, you might soon begin to see, that it might not say exactly what it appears to say here. Some of the more consistent ways to translate this word actually drastically change the meaning away from predestination. I would recommend looking it up, it's super interesting ;).

Remember, though many like to believe to the contrary, even the interpreters of the Bible weren't without their occasional doctrinal leanings.

(For the record, I was formerly a fatalist who believed in predestination, and salvation only for the elect. When I was challenged to study deeper though, the Scriptures started knocking Calvin's legs out from under me.)

 2010/10/15 23:46









 Re: Mans will

God would like to know why so many people cling to their sins.

The common denominator of all sin is selfishness. But why do people choose temporary pleasures over eternal love? It is not logical. There is no rational reason to make this choice. It is like making one's self into a pleasure-driven animal rather than an intelligent and loving being. There is no reason, no explanation, no cause.



They hated me without a cause (John 15:25)
They that hate me without a cause (Ps 69:4)
that hate me without a cause (Ps 35:19)

they are without excuse (Rom 1:20)
thou art inexcusable (Rom 2:1)

how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (Matt 22:12)

why will ye die? (Ezek 18:31)
why will ye die? (Ezek 33:11)
Why will ye die? (Jer 27:13)

What more could have been done to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? WHY, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? (Isa 5:4)



"If anyone is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice." - Ignatius

“We are responsible for being bad and worthy of being cast outside. For it is not the nature in us that is the cause of the evil; rather, it is the voluntary choice that works evil.” - Origen

“Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions – whatever they may be” - Justin Martyr

“For how can He punish a nature which had no power to do good, but was bound in the hands of wickedness?” - Theodorite

“Those who do not do it [good] will receive the just judgment of God, because they had not worked good when they had it in their power to do so. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving of praise for being good, for they were created that way. Nor would the former be reprehensible, for that is how they were made. However, all men are of the same nature. They are all able to hold fast and to do what is good. On the other hand, they have the power to cast good from them and not to do it.” - Irenaeus

 2010/10/16 0:38
NewCovWinDor
Member



Joined: 2007/2/10
Posts: 72
A Little Town In Iowa

 Re:

I love these testimonies! Thank you, davym, MyVeryHeart, Pilgrim777 and others.

What a blessing to have a discussion like this and not have it become a messy Cal/Arm bloodbath.

Let's try to keep it that way!

Peace in Jesus,


_________________
Ryan G.

 2010/10/16 1:21Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Have you ever done a word study on this particular passage?

Here is more.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the ELECT'S SAKE, WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN, he hath shortened the days.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I KNOW OF WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

John 15:16 Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Romans 16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no man can say, "I chose God" and glory in it.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 ...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2 Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light;

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.











 2010/10/16 8:42
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

walkthewalk...

Quote:
The God I serve does not select some for salvation and others not.




The God of the Bible does.


Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Jhn 12:37 ¶ But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.


Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.




As Matt 18 shows clearly, there is accountability even when you cannot get yourself out of debt. Be careful of making such statements of who God is.

 2010/10/19 12:10Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, after more than 45 yrs. of being in question the Lord revealed this to me... everything in the future is whosover will may come and as i look back i see that everything was ordered by the Lord.jimp predestined from the foundation of the earth...the one He died for...Praise Jesus

 2010/10/19 12:38Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

Ceedub,

I think it is very important to take things within the context of Scripture.

Just to give you an example about context, I have heard this from a preacher and it explained a lot of things to me. He asked his audience and said: What would you conclude if I tell you that a man just cut open a lady’ stomach? What would you think of this man. But before they answered, he said: You shouldn’t conclude anything yet, because you do not know the context of the information I have just given you.

Then he said: context makes all the difference in the world. If the context is: This lady is in a delivery room and she is having a Cesarean and this man is a doctor trying to save her life and the life of her baby. Then, and only then you can make a conclusion about his motive and consequently about his character.

On the other hand, if the context is: He was trying to steal her purse and she resisted him. Then you can make a conclusion about his motive that he is trying to harm her and consequently you can conclude that he is of a bad character.

Well, all that got me thinking. If we have to stay in reserve and hold off from making any conclusion until we know the context about the things of this life, how much more serious must we be about Bible interpretation that, if mishandled, may result in spiritual loss. It is the Word of God, The Holy inspired Word of God.

How often do we snatch a verse out of it’s context and give it a completely different meaning by doing this.
God will hold us accountable if we are not careful to handle His Word with most reverence.

If you agree on what I have just said so far, I will go on to explain the verses you included in your post, but if not, there is no point of going on any further.


_________________
Fifi

 2010/10/19 14:27Profile





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