| Re: |
"So when Tozer speaks of the remnant, is he talking about those that God, in His mercy, has saved out of the vast sea of lost humanity, or his he talking about those of whom he approves. I am not saying that to be "cheeky", but I am trying to make a point. Are only those who go to prayer meetings really saved?"
Hey brother, that made me smile, the " cheeky," part. I appreciate that you are making a point. Tozer is talking about, in my opinion, and he talks of it over and over again in his writings, those who have a had a radical encounter with Christ and are changed forever, not theologicaly, but actually.
It also made me smile about following you home some day when your kids are acting up :) Me too brother, me too. I believe that the point Tozer was making was about the changed life, about the holy and sanctified life as opposed to professors of religion who stepped forward one day and signed on the dotted line and got their fire insurance and continue to live as they lived before.
I think in the greater debate about why bother even talking about the Remnant is because of the lost souls and the horror of standing before God and hearing those aweful words " depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you." If 90% of this country claim to be in Christ, and the vast majority are not, then this is the harvest field. Also, what a grand army it would be if the professors of religion discovered the reality of Christ and only lived for Him, if they did not bow the knee to the modern day Baals..........brother Frank
| 2010/9/25 16:58|
| Re: |
John 1:12-16 But as many as received Him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
This receiving is not an act of men but an act of the work of Christ on the Cross. He is the One that gives power to become sons of God. Even to them that believe on His Name.
We are not born of blood, we are not born of the will of the flesh, we are not born of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. We are simply the recipients of the Grace of God and the Work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The old has passed away and the New has come, we cannot work for this receiving any more and the Old Testament proves it and God's plan from the new, which is the Cross is still in effect.
I don't believe that God has changed His program, and given Tozer the number to publish His figures for the ones that are in His Son or the number of sons in His House.
How many is a remnant? Only God knows. Only God publishes the numbers.
In Christ: PHILLIP
| 2010/9/25 20:55||Profile|
| Re: |
"This receiving is not an act of men but an act of the work of Christ on the Cross."
Thats a whole other subject Philip, this is not what Tozer is writing about.
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Paul is identifying false brethren. Also, Paul spent three years, night and day, warning about false brethren, wolves in sheep's clothing. These false brethren, as identified in the above Scripture, were religious men. The history of Christendom is about religious men, in the name of Christ, persecuting the remnant, the few. Again, read the Pilgrim Church or Foxes Book of Martyrs. This is no new doctrine, its just that religious mens numbers are at an all time high, hence the low spiritual state.......brother Frank
| 2010/9/25 21:38|
| Re: Remnant |
Appolus & Other SI Friends:
The subject of the Remnant causes no small stir; Tozer, Ravenhill and many others have preached this message. I would refer anyone who is interested in related teaching to visit Zac Poonen's site at www.cfcindia.com. Searching for the word "remnant" on his site brings up articles and sermons regarding this subject.
| 2010/9/25 22:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Thanks mkal, that is why Tozer calls it a " terrible doctrine,' because the truth of it means that the vast majority of confessors are not saved. Christianity is more than a name or accident of natural birth, obviously.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
| 2010/9/25 22:35|
| Re: |
Someone mentioned "millions of wandering Christians, leaving the churches". Heb. 13:13
Hebrews 11 - What has changed?
From Genesis through Revelation there is a religious system that opposes God and there is the Church in the wilderness.
Nothing has changed.
| 2010/9/25 23:31|
| Re: |
Ken H. was asked: What do you think becomes of these half-born Christians you mentioned?
His Answer: Now I dont believe that a true, born-again Christian can lose his salvation, but he can lose his effectiveness, and at the judgment seat of Christ before which all Christians must appear, we are warned repeatedly that we could be ashamed before Him at His coming (1 John 2:28), and suffer great lossnot our soul, but our rewardat the time when Christ appears (1 Cor. 3:1015).
However, incorrect the term, I think it was either Tozer or Ravenhill who used the half-born description as well. However, I think the reference was to those with a questionable salvation?
| 2010/9/25 23:39||Profile|
| Re: |
Does God treat a born-again Christian's known, unconfessed sins as different than an unbeliever's sins?
I thought Milt Green's audio sermons, "How the Church Has Failed to Fulfill God's Law" was very good. Actually, "What is True Salvation" is excellent.
| 2010/9/25 23:47|
| Re: |
""What is True Salvation" Now this has always been the question of the ages. I personally believe that most professors were never born-again in the first place. Many grow up in the church, many enjoy the word of God, but time and circumstances reveal all I believe. First of all, in my own personal experience, I would say that a man talks about his passion. Whether it is sports or cars or gambling or parties, men talk about their passions and they are drawn to people with similiar passions. Listen to any man talk and see if his passion is Jesus. Does he talk about Him personally?
Circumstances also reveals much, Jesus talks about this in the sower and the seed. The cares of life, persecution, riches and so on, these are revealed as we live our lives. Two houses can be standing side by side. Along comes a storm, and when the storm is over, only one house is still standing. This process could take a week or 40 years, but a man will be revealed as time passes. The false professor will be weakened and flounder under trials and persecution, the child of God is strenghtened by a God who never leaves him nor forsakes him. The religious man will be uncomfortable talking about Jesus personally, because he cannot relate, its not a personal relationship for the religious man, its information. He will be drawn towards politics and matters of the world, " tangible,' things he can relate to.
Its a large subject, but in a country where almost 90% claim to be Christian, its an important one.......brother Frank
| 2010/9/26 0:07|
| Re: |
I have heard Michael Pearl and Milt Green say that 98% of professing christians are lost.
Fruit is brought about by "knowing Christ", and the true "knowing" of Christ means surrender and submission and not going our way.
In this respect, Mike and Milt, may be right on, if not very close in their estimation.
The Word says He will judge us based on Him "Knowing Us" and Us, Knowing Him. A born-again Believer "knows" Christ. Even after their first prayer. But so many "inherit" their Christianity from their parents and have never had that personal encounter with Jesus Christ. That is why the Truth must be preached.
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. Jer 9:23-24
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mt. 7:20-23
And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. Luke 10:39-42
Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Matt. 25:11-12
| 2010/9/26 0:21|