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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, the end times are very important to God because He is in charge of how when where and with whom all these events and more happen.if one is saved and in Christ,that one is included in Gods end time plan even if they are wrong about what and how it all is going to happen...phillip,what can you do to change Gods plans or hurry God up ... nothing.maranatha...there are chapters skipped because they do not fitmost peoples stance on this like we calvinist skip over verses that refute some of our beliefs...it will all happen but it will not happen like you or i think because His ways are beyond us.paul looked through a glass darkly but we have all the answers or just answer all the questions and half of what we have to say will sound goofy to us in 30 years as we study more.jimp

 2010/8/21 1:49Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 16:12-15 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:23-26 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Where is our conversation? It is already in heaven, just as we are seated already in heavenly places with Christ.

How can the Body of Christ not be with Him when He comes in the clouds for the dead in Christ first and even those who are alive in Christ and we shall be with the Lord forever.

He will make it so when the rapture and our resurrecteed body like His will be living in heaven with Him, not on this earth as those that are left behind in the tribulation and also even to those that are saved in the tribulation on this earth. The Body of Christ the Church is His Body, His Church and He will come and get us and bring us to the marriage supper of the Lamb, and bring us to the New Jerusalem that we might reign and rule with Him from Davids Throne. so shall we ever be with the Lord, therefore comfort one another with these words.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2010/8/21 4:05Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Just a question for someone who is post-trib. (I'm not trying to prove anything or debate, just wondering.)

What is being spoken of in these scriptures if it is not a pre-trib rapture?

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. Rev. 3:10

and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. 1Thes. 1:10

Again I'm not trying to prove anything, because I'm not 100% sure where I stand yet (pre or post-trib) deffinitely one of the two. But thanks for any help on this matter.

But whenever He comes may we all be ready!!!

edit:
I lean more towards pre-trib, and yes I believe the rapture will happen in our lifetime!

Thanks,
TimmyJoe

 2010/8/21 17:48Profile









 Re:

TimmyJoe,

If perhaps you can fit your verses into this post you might look at things differently. Regarding this, it's asked that you consider the context and/or principle behind Rev. 3.10.

As far as "wrath" goes in I Thess. 1.10, there are 5 different greek words that are translated as wrath, the type of which in this verse signifies the type of which that will be poured out on day of the Lord, and not the other 4. The tribulation is not the day of the Lord...

...even as the tribulation according to Bible says is only the time when Jerusalem is over-run by Gentiles in the time of the abomination of desolation, and not the full 7 'years'...

...Anti-Christ is a spirit and not a person; however, The Beast is a personification of an angel released from the abyss.
---------------------------------------------------------

IF ANYONE WISHES TO DISPUTE THIS, SHOW BIBLE BOOK, CHAPTER AND VERSE (as human reasoning about this seems faulty). i am neither pre-, mid-, nor post- tribulation regarding the resurrection (and ascension?) of God's own people. My view is that Jesus will bring an end to time before everything is destroyed, at a point somewhere within the last portion of tribulation. That puts me somewhere between the mid- and post- rapturists, and it is agreed that when He returns it isn't just a gathering, but His 2nd coming prophecied.


Here is what is currently thought, main events successively occuring in this order:
1. the gathering
2. Jesus brings all the saints to the Mount of Olives with Him and to the battle of Kings (Meggedo) and by His word, blood shall flow to the horses bridle from all who have set themselves against Him.
3. Marriage supper

(the above says nothing about other events surrounding these things, such as judgement, the war after the 1000 year reign, etc...but only adresses the things relative to the resurrection/ascension of the saints.)



Amillenialists say that Rev. 20.2-7 is a figurative thousand years, and the millenium is non-existent.

Postmillenialists say that we are living in the millenium, yet most should have trouble considering this valid thinking about the turn of events in the last half of the 20th century, especially from 1970 to 1999.

Premillenialists generally agree the tribulation will be a lieral 7 years, and many see it as being shortened because Jesus said if it weren't, nobody would survive.

The pre-, mid- and post- tribulation rapturists will most usually be found in the premillenialist camp.

Pre-, mid-, or post-tribulation 'rapture'...
...which one?



The foundation of the view from here:

Jesus has declared the end from the beginning (of creation).

Unlike most folks, here the whole Bible is considered prophecy. Failure to reconcile it will be in the last days as it was in the beginning is a failure to reconcile Genesis to Revelation. Westerners tend to think of prophecy as merely predictions, yet prophecy is simply speaking out what God tells one to declare. The Bible --all the texts corraborating one another-- is a book of prophecy.

With all the theologics and whatnots of doctrinologists it's not hard to become ensnared, attached to a certain viewpoint, yet will it stand the test of ALL the scriptures confirming the view?????

As far as outright declaration as to what will come, jimp said go to Daniel as a starting point. Revelation and Daniel form a congruent whole, yet everything found in the Bible stands secondary to what Jesus declares.

What dominated this man ov God?

HE spoke to us through the Psalmist, "Lo, I AM come; in the roll of the book it is written about Me: I DELIGHT TO DO YOUR WILL OH GOD!" This meets head-on with the first recorded words of Jesus as a boy, when he said, "Didn't you know i must be about my Father's business." In the book of John, we read this one theme repeatedly: "My meat is to do the will of Him who sent me." His life's expression on earth is/was dedicated from first beginnings until the very end to doing God's will.

No matter what book of the Bible one looks to, it's about Jesus. Never forget this one fact! It is not just the book of Revelation, but the whole Bible is the very testimony and revelation of Jesus Christ.

This seems to be the failure of so many followers in never advancing beyond their current state of growth, pete and repete everything over and over again in so many different ways, and on the whole virtually ignoring the Son of God's take on all these issues or where He is manifest in these things. The only man who ever came to earth whose full and complete intentions were wrapped up in the will of His and our Father is often forgotten.

Paul said follow my example, yet there is very little actually accounting his activities; But of Jesus, we have four written records devoted specifically to this. You can follow Paul's example which is piecemeal at best, and not always on the up and up, or you can follow Jesus perfect example in the spirit of the letter. In Him we come to know 'the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God' .

Do Paul's or John's or Peter's writings take precedent over Jesus' actual words (and deeds)? If any person would establish a solid sure understanding of God's revelation they must go to Jesus, as His testimony is the spirit of prophecy --(Rev. 19.10)-- having declared the end from the beginning.


It is wished you will observe to keep this your first consideration towards whenever you look at scripture (and everything else).
_______________________________________

Genesis or anything else will not be detailed out here, exept to consider the intended sacrafice of Isaac by Abraham marking the turning point of ancient history, even as Jesus crucifixion is the reality of that shadow in this Common Era A. D.

This thread is regarding the when of the second resurrection, many call the rapture, and so here are the specific scriptures to consider relative to this:




And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Lk. 21.20-28




But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mk. 13.24-27




Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mt. 24.29-31
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Just from what Jesus said, it is really strange there is still adherance to the concept of a pre-trib 'rapture'.
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And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets . . . And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev. 10.5-7, 11.14-18


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here we see that the shofar ("trump" of God, by the seventh angel) signals the end of time, agreeing with the synoptic gospels. The blast of the Ram's horn was used most often in a call to war, as well as things ordained by God, a call to Him in distinction from things absent from Him.

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13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I Thess. 4.13-18


Why the verses of this one and only passage should contradict the other passages is not reasonable...however for those with dispute consider the following:

Note in verse 14 the phrase, "bring with him" at the end of the verse, in greek reads, "axei sun avto."

axei=to: bring, lead, or take
sun=united with
avto=itself, herself, themselves, himself, he, she, it
Because of this verse in relation to the remainder of the passage lacks clarity whether Jesus will:

a. will bring the dead and alive with Him when returning to earth;

b. will gather the dead and alive with Him as he reigns on earth;

c. will bring the dead and alive together to be with Him upon returning from heaven, collecting us all together in a "rapture" . . .


Three ambigouous scenarios that can only find their ultimate conclusion using the Bible to interpret itself. These things Paul states have to be taken in relation to the other passages if there will be no contradiction.

If rapture is actually the resurrection, then this one passage is either misunderstood or the rest of the relative scriptures are being ignored.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 17.20 - 18.8 was not mentioned as it does not detail specifics regarding as to when, except speaking of "as in the days of Noe" and "as in the days of Lot." It is not in regard to the exact timing but rather towards being ready. This section of scripture is seen as related to:

~ Mk. 13:18, 33 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter... Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

~ Mt. 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

~...some of Luke 21 already quoted above,
and

~ Lk. 21.33-36 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


After the Paschal meal, Jesus indicates God's will is not to extract us from any problems in the world:


...In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world . . . (and in the "High Priestly prayer" he prays regarding this very thing) . . . I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Jn. 16.33b, 17.15

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One thing J. Dwight Pentecost and Hal Lindsey fail to account for in the propogation of the dispensational view is something that is unthinkable here: Will Messianic Jews because they identify with the Jewish people, be forced to stay behind and suffer???

The faith of Jesus offered in the New Testament does not offer an escape from suffering for any who follow Him, but rather to share in this, and "obtain a better inheritance" as a result.






The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture reeks of individualistic narcissistic escapism, without saying it outright, proclaiming, "I'm outta' here, so the world can go to hell as far as I'm concerned."

 2010/8/21 21:49
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Just a question for someone who is post-trib. (I'm not trying to prove anything or debate, just wondering.)



A fair question to ask. I'll attempt to answer the best I can.

Quote:

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. Rev. 3:10

and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. 1Thes. 1:10



It might sound like these verses support the idea of a pre-tribulational rapture to some. But when you take into account the fact that Scripture talks about believers living during the tribulation period, then we know these verses cannot say such. In fact, when we read the book of Revelation, we see Christians in the midst of everything that is going on.

Consider the following sampling:
--------------------------------
And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also. - (Rev 6:11 NASB)

It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. - (Rev 13:7 NASB)

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. - (Rev 14:12 NASB)

And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. - (Rev 17:6 NASB)
--------------------------------------

Many people are quick to point out that John never uses the word "church" or "churches" during the tribulation period as spoken of in the book of Revelation. And that is true. But to say because he never uses that word after Revelation 3 with the exception of Revelation 22, and that therefore proves that the church isn't present during the tribulation period would be misleading. For John only uses the word "church" or "churches" when writing to a specific locality (i.e. the church in Ephesus.) He NEVER uses the word to describe the Church universal (i.e "the Church.")

Instead, from Revelation 4-22, he John uses other terms to describe the church going through the tribulation period. Indeed, over 18 times does he use the phrases brethren, saints, and witnesses to describe believers alive at this time. This by the way, excludes other symbolic imagery which refers to Christians alive during this time.

Well, you might think this is all fine and good, and explain these references to speak of saints who are simply converts that come into existence after the rapture of the church. But if you use that logic, then you have basically created a second class of saints within the church of whom the promises of Christ do not apply towards. Such might be ok if you are dispensational in your theology. But I'm not a dispensationalist, and don't believe in a funny slicing and dicing of God's word.

Such a belief, in my opinion, creates a funny world, and is an odd way of doing theology. Indeed, to me such logic does great injury to the doctrine of grace. A logic that says it is ok if some Christians suffer through the tribulation period, but not others, all because some were good boys and girls, whereas others were too late in getting their act together. Under such a logic, some Christians are destined to wrath, but others are excluded. I'm sorry, but that simply doesn't make any sense to me.

Therefore, since we have references to the church existing during the tribulation period, we must understand Christ's references to being "kept" from that hour as being able to persevere by means of His grace working in our lives through faith. Indeed, Revelation 14:22 implies as much, as the topic of perseverance and endurance are taken up in the book of Revelation, Indeed, though the anti-Christ makes war against the saints, the saints prevail and overcome him by the word of their testimony, the blood of the Lamb, and not loving their lives unto death. Though he slay them and wear them out left and right, and becomes drunk from their blood, they discover victory in the midst of tribulation and chaos.

And regarding the supernatural wrath that is to be poured out on this world, I believe we will be "kept" and protected from it during that time, but that doesn't mean we will be snatched out of the world in order to be kept from it. For we must realize that the tribulation time isn't the only time in history in which God pours out His wrath on the world. Indeed, even now God is pouring out His wrath on all the world.

For Romans 1:18 teaches that the wrath of God "is" revealed from heaven against all manner of unrighteousness. We must realize that Biblical speaking, this world is always under judgment and suffering from the wrath of God. There is never a moment when it is not. The wages of sin is always death. And people are dying every day, not because death is simply a natural part of life, but because this world we are living in is always under judgment. Even judgments that are of Biblical proportions, such as the global economic collapse the world is still suffering under. Or the flooding in Pakistan. The tsumani in Sri-Lanka. Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. The list goes on and on.

The judgments we read about in the book of Revelation are simply different in degree, not type, from what we are experiencing in the here and now. They only differ in intensity. But fundamentally they are still of the same type of judgments going on actively around the world as we speak. And all of these are designed by the Lord to teach the nations righteousness, and serve as final wake-up calls leading up to the final and last judgment, for which no repentance can be made.

At any rate, I hope these answers will satisfy your inquiry. I'll be happy to clarify and expand on this as the Lord permits.


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/21 22:33Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:

Amillenialists say that Rev. 20.2-7 is a figurative thousand years, and the millenium is non-existent.



Not so brother. Amillenialism says we are in the millenium now, similar to Postmillenialism. The difference from Postmil is that Postmil says there has to be a golden age where the world is largely Christianized before Christ comes back.

The following is one of the main reasons I came to side with Amillenialism: It did not make sense to me that so much of Revelation is taken to be symbolic by Premillenialists, including other numbers besides the 1000 years of Rev.20, like the 24 elders, 24 thrones, 7 spirits, etc. And yet when it comes to the 1000 years they say it has to be taken literally, and they go and make a huge doctrine out of it. To me it seemed like not respecting the apocoliptic symbols and nature of the entire book.


_________________
Oracio

 2010/8/22 0:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Perhaps the numbers used in Revelation, while symbolic in meaning, are quite literal in the actual quantities they represent? Perhaps there are literally 24 elders in heaven, whatever those "elders" might be. Perhaps there are to be 7 seals/bowls/trumpets. Perhaps 1,000 years is symbolic of something. But at the same time, perhaps there will actually be 1,000 years of a geo-political rule of Christ from Jerusalem? While numbers can have symbolic meaning to them, most of the times I see such numbers in the Bible, each of those numbers is actually attached to something tangibly numeric. Jesus fasting for 40 days was no doubt symbolic. But he actually fasted 40 days.

Get my drift?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/8/22 0:58Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Jimmy, I'm not sure if you are aware of the Amillenial response to your statement. So just in case, here it is:
In Ps.50:10 we are told that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Are we to take that literally? Of course not. It simply means that God owns all the cattle in all the hills. In 1 Chron.16:15 we are told that God made a covenant for a thousand generations, namely the Abrahamic covenant. Is that literal? No, verse 16 says its an everlasting covenant, so the thousand is figurative of all generations. The same meaning can be applied to the millenial reign.
Amillenialism argues for comparing Scripture with Scripture, and interpreting obscure passages in light of the clearer ones. So because a literal thousand year reign of Christ on earth, clearly seems to conflict with much of the rest of Scripture, especially much of the NT, we argue for seeing the thousand years as symbolic of the period between Christ's first and second coming.


_________________
Oracio

 2010/8/22 1:26Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: TimmyJoe


TimmyJoe wrote:
What is being spoken of in these scriptures if it is not a pre-trib rapture?

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. Rev. 3:10
------------------------------

I could be wrong but in that particular verse, pre-trib argues the meaning of the word “FROM” and post-trib argue the meaning of the word “KEEP.” I noticed that a couple of years ago! I was like, “How can we agree? We’re not even arguing over the same thing!!”

It’s a useless debate.

God bless you all,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2010/8/22 7:32Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: TimmyJoe 1 more!


TimmyJoe wrote:
Again I'm not trying to prove anything, because I'm not 100% sure where I stand yet (pre or post-trib) deffinitely one of the two. But thanks for any help on this matter.
---------------------------

I am in agreement with what Phanetheus wrote here: “i am neither pre-, mid-, nor post- tribulation regarding the resurrection (and ascension?) of God's own people.”
(edit and re-edit!!!: but "Lysa" does if fact "lean" heavily towards post-trib! I'm sorry Phane, i did not mean to insinuate that you were post-trib; it was the way I typed the sentence that made it seem from you. I apologize.)

(edit) And Jimmy's statement: "Personally, most of the people I know who hold to a "pan-tribulational" theology are people who are willfully ignorant concerning these things, and deliberately ignore the writings of the prophets, and things like the book of Revelation."
(edit: I'm (Lysa) listening to his sunday school teaching now)



timmyjoe, I really like the follwing sermon series: (/edit)

On page 15 of Zac Poonen’s audio sermon’s is his (Revelation) series:

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/
viewcat.php?cid=157&min=280&orderby=titleA&show=20
(Please, remove the ‘return’ after /mydownloads/)


2. Another good sermon series to listen to is David Pawson’s Revelations sermons too!!

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=528


That is if you really want to know more about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, listen to these!!

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2010/8/22 7:41Profile





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