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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A New Covenant

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Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I think that God never ceases to be gracious. He says that even in a land of captivity, If they will confess their iniquities, He will remember His covenant with their ancestors.


Hi David,

Taking one step at a time, would you say that the covenant with Jacob, and the covenant with Isaac, and also the covenant with Abraham were conditional covenants?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2010/10/28 4:06Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

DavidC wrote:

Quote:
PS Snufalagapus also says that what he believes comes from revelation of the Holy Spirit, and we should respect him in these things, as with all of us, as long as our salvation in Christ is secure.


David, Although I agree that concerning the end times we can and will all differ according to interpretation of scripture, I cannot agree that not believing in Christ future return (2nd coming) is a matter of interpretation, it is is a denial of scripture!

If someone says they do not believe in Christ coming again for His bride, they have to deliberately ignore the scriptures that clearly say He is. to say 'it was revealed by the Spirit' is not good enough and is entering the realm of Gnosticism. The second coming is a foundational and important truth of Christ and any Bible believing Christian could have no other view, even if we may differ on some of the details.

What if someone said I don't believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, because 'it was revealed to me by the Spirit' Would we say 'that's OK, we respect that'? No we would say 'you are deceived' and stand for the truth.

Here is just one scripture (many more we could quote):


2 Peter 10-13:
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this 'Day of the Lord' has come yet!


_________________
Dave

 2010/10/28 5:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The Kingdom age cannot come until the Kingdom is established on this earth in the millennium-1000 YEARS OF THE REIGN OF CHRIST ON THIS EARTH ON DAVIDS THRONE.

Since this falls under the heading of the New Covenant, I will answer this with scripture.

Please read it like reading the fine print of a legal document.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven IS AT HAND.

Dictionary idiom meaning, close or near at hand. Within easy reach, nearby, as in I like to keep my tools close at hand.

The law and the prophets were until John, if one is being done away with (or rather fulfilled in Christ), than something else needs to take it's place. And I have no trouble believing that the Kingdom of God did come.

What is the Kingdom of God?

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

We have Peace, we have Joy and we have the Holy Ghost.

When was the Holy Ghost given?

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

In the Holy Ghost! If you can hear it, that is your kingdom.







 2010/10/28 10:36
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

snufalapagus, Amen!


_________________
Mark Nash

 2010/10/28 13:51Profile









 Re:

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rev 1 :7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 2010/10/28 18:20
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

"would you say that the covenant with Jacob, and the covenant with Isaac, and also the covenant with Abraham were conditional covenants?"
Good question Nasher

"He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance: When they were but a few men in number; yea, very few, and strangers in it. Psalms 105:8-12

This psalm indicates that the covenant was made with Abraham, an oath unto Isaac, but a law and and everlasting covenant to Jacob/Israel - I believe this refers to Israel, the famiy (when they were a few men in number, and srangers. ie before they went down to Egypt).

Abraham
in Gen 15 is told, after the smoking furnace: "In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:". This in an unconditional covenant.
When he was 99, the covenent was confirmed ("My covenent is with thee"), His name was changed, and it was said to be an "everlasting covenent, to be a God unto thee" Chap 17.
When Abraham offered his son up to God, God again confirmed the land covenant, but also swore His Oath to Abraham. The Oath is "In blessing, I will bless thee" Whereas the covenent speaks of the inheritance, the Blessing always speaks of the Holy Spirit "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."Gal 3:14 Completely unconditional.

Isaac
according to the psalm, received the oath, ie the blessing, but no direct mention of the covenant with him: "Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26:2-5 . Unconditional blessing, and all because his father obeyed God's voice. Speaking so much of Christ.

Jacob, after his ladder dream at Bethel,(Gen 28) is promised by God the same land promises as to Abraham, plus " and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed". Again, unconditional. (To me, this speaks not of present gospel blessings to the Gentiles, but of the age to come, when Christ will reign on the earth, Israel will be chief among the nations and The gentiles will be blessed and bring their offerings yearly to Jerusalem.)
After Jacob's Mahanaim experience, he returns to Bethel (Chap 35) his name is changed to Israel, and again God promises the land. Unconditionally.

But we have gone away from the children of Israel

David


_________________
david

 2010/10/28 19:11Profile









 Re: A New Covenant


Just out of interest, I looked in Young's Literal for the word everlasting. (The rest are translated 'age-during'.)

I found ONE!

Jude 1:6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,

 2010/10/28 20:38
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,God is a covenant keeping God and this is why He hates any form of a broken covenant.we live in a day when most do not have a clue what real covenant is and are marrying and giving in marriage in the church and behind the pulpit.it is my belief that covenant is the most important teaching we can learn.Jesus,being very God and very man,cut a covenant for God and man in His finished work at the cross and it is a better covenant but it is not a covenant that ends the covenants He made with the jews even though a jew must come to Jesus to be saved.jimp

 2010/10/28 21:21Profile









 Re: A New Covenant


So, is the covenant which was broken in these verses, of no significance?

Zech 11:10 And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.

 2010/10/28 21:39
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,it must not be because it does not fit into my statement or theology.jimp i do not know .

 2010/10/28 22:34Profile





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