SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A New Covenant

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

 2010/10/13 8:47









 Re:

Zec 12:1
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Now this is a very good verse you posted Rev. It shows the grace that came by Jesus Christ and the day of Pentecost when the Jews heard the message they were pricked in their hearts, they were sorry that they crucified their Saviour and Lord. If we were there that day, there would have been a great mourning but the reading is silent as is a lot of passages.

 2010/10/13 11:28









 Re:

Verses just previous to Zec 12:10 indicate a future fulfilment These events were not fulfilled at pentecost and as of 2010 AD they are still unfulfilled,
The reference is clearly to to Israel and God's future dealings with them.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

 2010/10/13 14:04
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Travis, you say:
"I believe Jew and Gentile alike will enter the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ."
"I think the Jews coming in must come at some point just prior to the day of the Lord."

Your say the truth in your first statement; salvation in this time of grace is for Jew and Gentile through faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ, and I'm so glad it is.
But your second statement, as you say, what "you think", is the opposite of what the bible say will happen to Israel before the coming of the Lord.
The last times for Israel according to hundreds of prophesies is to be a time of Judgement by God on them as a nation.
It is called the time of Jacob's trouble in Jeremiah ch30 v7;
"A consumption determined in the midst of land" in Isaiah ch 10 v23, and "Jerusalem has drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of His fury" Isaiah 51 v7;
a "time of trouble , such as never was since there was a nation' in Daniel ch12 v1,
and Jesus Himself in Matthew 24 v21 "For then shall be great tribulation , such as was not since the beginningof the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be".
The psalms also are full of the cries of the remnant of Israel during this time.
Isaiah cries to the Lord in chap 6 "How long" will this people have fat hearts, and eyes and ears that are closed. And the Lord replies
"Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof". Isaiah 6:11-13 (KJV)

It is with judgements that Zion is to be redeemed Is ch1 v27, Not with the gospel message (they are it's enemies).

David (soon to be a butterfly)


_________________
david

 2010/10/13 18:42Profile
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

"Verses just previous to Zec 12:10 indicate a future fulfilment These events were not fulfilled at pentecost and as of 2010 AD they are still unfulfilled,
The reference is clearly to to Israel and God's future dealings with them."

Amen to that Rev

david


_________________
david

 2010/10/13 18:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. 7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. 8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



It's amazing and I say this with all due respect for you Rev, that we both see things in different perspectives. And I know that your mind on the matter as well as mine is clear and without a doubt. At one time, I would have wholeheartedly agree with you, however, those days are long gone.

When I read this, so many scriptures already come to mind as I am sure they do for you as well. It's just like that I guess.

Verse 6 is speaking of the Apostles (governors) that would receive power at Pentecost and the fire in the sheaf means that they would have fire within them and they would devour, that is they would spread the good news like wild fire all over. To the right hand and to the left means that the way has been opened for everyone, both good and bad.

Verse 7, The tents of Judah would be saved first, meaning, the Gospel is to the Jews first.

Verse 8, The Lord will defend Jerusalem, meaning, He shall be their God and they shall be His people. And he that is feeble shall be as David meaning, they shall be beloved because of their meek and mild spirit.
The house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them, meaning, Jesus will lead them, be in them, united as one with the Father.

Verse 9 the destroying of nations that come up against Jerusalem are those that come against the body of Christ.

 2010/10/13 19:01









 Re:

With all due respect snufalapagus your exegesis of these verses are beyond my comprehension.
It seems that you are changing the clear meaning of these verses to conform to your views concerning Israel and the end times.



 2010/10/13 19:35









 Re:

Quote:
With all due respect snufalapagus your exegesis of these verses are beyond my comprehension.

Praise God, I had a hearty laugh when I read this first sentence Brother.
Quote:
It seems that you are changing the clear meaning of these verses to conform to your views concerning Israel and the end times.

I wouldn't say my views, it's just easy to interpret the scriptures when you see Christ in every one of them and seeing them already fulfilled.

 2010/10/13 19:50
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Nasher, you ask
So can we begin with my comment that the new covenant has replaced the old covenant, does anyone disagree with this?
It is certainly a question that gets to the rheart of the matter.

Can I say first, that most are agreed that both the old covenant and the new covenant were made originally with Israel as they were God's chosen people.

Now some say that as Israel has rejected Christ, that the new covenant now applies to the church, and that it was Christ and the church that was always in the mind of God when He revealed the new covenant. The old covenant having now ceased. This is repacement theology. The church has replaced Israel as God's people, and all the promises made to Israel are now appropriated spiritually by the church.-- the Land meaning heaven, Jerusalem meaning the new Jerusalem, corn and wine spiritualised to the body and blood of Christ. He said "This is my blood of the new covenant ....."

Personally, I believe that the bible does not teach this, but rather, that we are partakers of the inheritance with Israel. The bible speaks of a future time when Christ will set up His kingdom and reign on the earth. Israel will then be saved, have the Holy Spirit pouted out, and have a relationship with God under the new covenant. They will have a new heart and a new spirit and God by His Spirit will dwell in them. Jesus Himself in His glorious resurrection life will be with them, and will be their king and priest.

To me the church, the body of Christ is one body with one Spirit, a heavenly people, a purchased possesion, A people for Christ's own glory, His bride to be. As such, the church has nothing to do with covenants, new or old.

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him" Eph 1:9-10 (KJV)

Love

David


_________________
david

 2010/10/13 20:48Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 28:23-31 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.


_________________
Phillip

 2010/10/14 4:55Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy