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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Why do we need a Comforter forever? We will be learning Christ and God the Father throughout all eternity, we will never exhaust the Wisdom of God, God's plans for His family, God's future plans in eternity.


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I take it by faith that I am born again of the Incorruptable Seed of the Father and Have Christ in me, As He is in the Father and the Father is in Him and the Holy Spirit is in all.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Christ is a Comforter to us also, One who gives Life, New Life. By Him we enter God's rest, Which God the Father swore we would and those outside would not.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

I see Him by faith and continue to see Him always by His presence in me, He is my Spirit which is the life that will enter the Kingdom of God, His Spirit which does not need teaching, He speaks to the Holy Spirit and what Jesus says, the Holy Spirit teaches me in my soul-mind, the only place I can renew my mind to the Mind of Christ that is in me.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

I truly know this mystery that Paul speaks by direct revelation in Col 1, by the Christ that is birthed in Paul.
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

He does manifest Himself to me always, because by Faith I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son, and He lives in me, "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me".
This was the Father's plan even before the foundation of the world. Where are we chosen? Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

I do love Jesus by His Love that is in me, I love Him because He loved me first. The whole God Head, that whole bucket of Grace provided by the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are in me. Not a partial bucket filled a little bit at a time, but the whole bucket of God in Christ Jesus is poured out upon and into believers.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

He is the One that has taught me that Jesus Christ is birthed In me and I being born again am a new creation race of my Fathers House, a son of God. I can enter the Kingdom and will enter on resurrection day, either from the grave or changed in the twinkling of an eye, a new flesh and bone body just like My Brothers, We will be just like Him.

John 14:27-29 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

It has come to pass and I believe, This is the peace Christ in us gives to The Father's children, son's of God, fellow Heirs with Christ to the Kingdom of God.

Chapter 15 later on the understanding of the three in one God of the Bible, My Father, My Brother and Savior, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit of truth, my Teacher and revealer of even the things I don't understand, He is the one that give true revelation.

In Christ: Phillip





_________________
Phillip

 2010/8/3 2:07Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Phane
"what about SheKiNAH?
Who is YaHShuVaH in relation to YHVH?"

Thats a good question had to look up the answer as im not a native jew or seminary student but good question and interesting answer never the less.

The question i would like to ask is that did not YHVH become YaHShuVaH in order to reveal himself to man and in doing so did he lose his YHVH(-ness)?

the definition of elohim (plural of god) i was using was taken from the strongs


אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of ĕlôahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


'ĕlôahh 'ĕlôahh
el-o'-ah, el-o'-ah
(The second form is rare); probably prolonged (emphatically) a deity or the deity: - God, god


Question:
1. If we say that the apostles did not teach the trinity directly can it be inferred from thier teaching that The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost were all perceived to be God? is there any scriptures that supports the view that God is not father, son and holy spirit.

2. As the book says in the "presence of two or three witnesses is a word established" now if we look at the book of revelations which is very allegorical in nature can we substantiate doctrine of the dimensions to the nature of Gods Spirit if we do not have another witness of scripture outside of revelations? Can we possiblt fully understand an allegorical book when now we can only "in part" know.

 2010/8/3 5:25Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

I keep wanting to read it, but alas the size had become daunting. Is it worth it guys?

I suspect that there is a spoiling policy at work here. We can give up or pursue this glorious truth as we choose. For myself I have stopped reading the posts that are not relevant to the New Covenant. I suggest you do the same.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/3 5:58Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Christinyou on 2010/8/2 22:50:10 writes:
"At the instant God the Father births the Incorruptable Seed in the Believer, "Born Again". Then we are baptized into the Holy Spirit by Christ, as John stated. The Holy Spirit works in our soul-mind to give the revelation of the birthing of The Christ Seed in the Believer. Now we are the son's of God."
you
As this is relevant to our thread I will try to respond.

is your 'then' suggesting a second event?
How does New Birth take place, is it not by the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus entering the believer?

Does, in your words, 'the Spirit work in our soul-mind to give the revelation..' ir is it the Spirit's presence in the believer that makes the revelation possible?

This is why I wanted to talk about the New Covenant. According to Ezekiel the terms of the New Covenant are ...

"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:25–27 NKJV

Is the New Covenant operationg when just some of these aspects are functioning or is the New Covenant only really functioning when all these aspects are at work.

These are some of the aspects of the New Covenant...

I will cleanse you...
I will give you a new heart
and put a new spirit within you
I will take out the heart of stone
and give you a heart of flesh
I will put my Spirit within you

Is, putting his Spirit within us, an optional addition to the New Covenant or is it an integral part of that covenant? If he has not put 'His Spirit within' are we actually in the New Covenant?


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/3 6:08Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re: Galatia

"I will cleanse you...
I will give you a new heart
and put a new spirit within you
I will take out the heart of stone
and give you a heart of flesh
I will put my Spirit within you"

if someone does not have the a heart of flesh or the law written in their hearts as opposed to stone are they truly saved? I ask this because i have loved ones in bondage to the ordinances of the old covenant and this bondage was caused by their own self desires in the first place. If the law being written by the Holy Ghost is non-optional why do people like some loved ones i know and even the church of galatia still get enticed by the law (assuming Paul was writing to believers in galatia)

 2010/8/3 6:57Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

RainMan on 2010/8/3 8:57:30 writes:
"if someone does not have the a heart of flesh or the law written in their hearts as opposed to stone are they truly saved? I ask this because i have loved ones in bondage to the ordinances of the old covenant and this bondage was caused by their own self desires in the first place. If the law being written by the Holy Ghost is non-optional why do people like some loved ones i know and even the church of galatia still get enticed by the law (assuming Paul was writing to believers in galatia)"

This is an important question but in a way a secondary one. When we are trying to interpret scripture we need to be very careful about the way that 'people we know' are factored into the answer. The question really is how does scripture define the New Covenant? When we have answered that question the next question is where does that leave me... and my friends.

Part of the struggle to answer this 'second question' is caused by the way we often use terms interchangeably which are not strictly speaking interchangeable.

eg."if someone does not have the a heart of flesh or the law written in their hearts as opposed to stone are they truly saved?"

The implication here is that someone has to be in the New Covenant in order to be saved, but is this true? If, as I believe, the New Covenant came into force at Pentecost it must mean that all saints who were pre-Pentecost were not in the New Covenant, but does that mean that all such were not 'saved'?

Perhaps this will shock but the purpose of the Old Covenant, the Sinai Covenant, was not salvation but calling and national destiny. There was no promise of 'heaven when we die' under the Sinai Covenant. Individuals under that law and individuals not under that law can only be right with God through justification. The saints of the OT were justified by faith, that is clearly stated in several places in the scripture, and if being justified by faith means that God has declared us to be right with him. If we are right with him we are 'safe' or 'saved'.

Why do people still go astray? An enemy hath done this... "you ran well" says Paul, "who (not what) hindered you?"


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/8/3 8:05Profile









 Re: new heart

"I will cleanse you...
I will give you a new heart
and put a new spirit within you
I will take out the heart of stone
and give you a heart of flesh
I will put my Spirit within you"

I do not see how it is possible to be born again without getting a new heart and receiving His Spirit.

Now it is possible to be truly be born again but still be bondage because of lack of understanding of what really took place at the cross.

I spent many years in bondage until I found out the real truth of what Christ accomplished for me.

 2010/8/3 9:02
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

tuc on 2010/8/3 11:02:33 writes
"do not see how it is possible to be born again without getting a new heart and receiving His Spirit."
Nor me

tuc on 2010/8/3 11:02:33 writes
Now it is possible to be truly be born again but still be bondage because of lack of understanding of what really took place at the cross.
I agree wholeheartedly


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/3 10:07Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Ron wrote:

Quote:
Perhaps this will shock but the purpose of the Old Covenant, the Sinai Covenant, was not salvation but calling and national destiny. There was no promise of 'heaven when we die' under the Sinai Covenant. Individuals under that law and individuals not under that law can only be right with God through justification. The saints of the OT were justified by faith, that is clearly stated in several places in the scripture, and if being justified by faith means that God has declared us to be right with him. If we are right with him we are 'safe' or 'saved'.



I absolutely agree with that statement that all those under the Law and outside the Law in the past and present could only be saved by justifying faith. As I understand it, it was always so and never did God have a different plan or way of salvation.
However I think that the Old Covenant Law was more than just a national calling (although it was that), but we are told by Paul that the purpose of the Law was to act as a 'guardian to lead us to Christ' (Galatians 3:23-24). It's purpose is to show us God's eternal moral standard and lead us to acknowledge we are sinners and cannot keep His law by our own efforts or work. We need to have our hearts changed with the law written on them so we now keep the moral standard of the law by the power of the Spirit in us.

I saw something I had not seen before in Deuteronomy ch.10 where Moses received the law on the second pair of tablets. This time he is told to put them in the woden ark (10:2), where as with the first tablets that he broke he carried them in his hands (Deut 9:15-17). I see this as a picture of the old and New Covenant. The first set of tablets were the law in man's hand. They had to be broken and could not be kept by the work of man's hand. The second tablets were placed in the ark, a picture of the law written in our heart.
This message of the law in our hearts is confirmed may times in scripture and further down the chapter in Deuteronomy 10:12 it says " ..what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, to serve the LORD your God with ALL YOUR HEART and all your soul". Then in v.16 they are told to "..circumcise the foreskin of your heart". They had the outward circumcision of the flesh, but God was (and always is) concerned with hearts. Only if the heart is changed can the life change and works follow.

As Christians it is possible to try and 'keep the law' by our own efforts, rather than allowing God to change our hearts and thereby fulfill the law!


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Dave

 2010/8/3 11:53Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: ""Is, putting his Spirit within us, an optional addition to the New Covenant or is it an integral part of that covenant? If he has not put 'His Spirit within' are we actually in the New Covenant?""

I Have said before, we don't get this Grace covenant in parts and pieces. We get the whole bucket of Grace, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit by virtue of new birth, The Seed being of the Father.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

With, in, created in Christ Jesus, birthed, Christ in you, you in Christ, the sock in the water and the water in the sock. The Holy Spirit is given to teach us what we have received and sort it all out the we might understand the Mind of Christ we now have, The Spirit of Christ, The Life of Christ, etc, all is given the instant we are born again, regenerated if you will. "The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God, it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. We must have the Holy Spirit to comprehend this mystery now revealed to His saints.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/8/3 12:26Profile





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