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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A New Covenant

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PosterThread
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Quote:
No, it isn't. This is an example of you using an OT passage to illustrate a NT truth. Paul makes no mention of this passage in Rom 1.



Paul writes as you have illustrated for us. But Paul also writes in the way I have illustrated.

Do you see that the passages in Romans 1 and Proverbs 1 are the same?



In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/28 17:42Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Quote:
I believe that if a person is in Christ and walking in the Spirit they will by nature fulfill the law. Being in Christ and Christ in me makes this possible. Being in Christ makes me dead to Sin. But key to this I think is found here



So finally we have come full circle, in the sense that in the beginning of this thread you opposed Gregg's view of how Christ fulfills the law. Christ does not abrogate the call of God's law upon men, but enables men to love the Father as He loved the Father. Christ enables men to love one another as He loved His neighbor. The law is spiritual, therefore it is God who provides the grace necessary for man to love Him and his neighbor.

For we know that Christ observed the whole law by the power of the Spirit. Likewise we who have the Spirit have access into the grace that is in Christ.

This is the "nature" of the promise.....
......................................................................................................................
1Jo 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
......................................................................................................................

Our love of God, our love for God is perfected through faith which God works to increase in us daily. The way of faith is highlighted in Abraham's life, which serves as an example for us. The only way fallen man could ever love God is through the power of the working of God in those who live by faith.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/28 18:03Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

appolus asks:


Quote:
Complete surrender, God wants our whole hearts. Once He has our whole hearts we can do all things through Christ. Ah but there's the rub. Are we willing to love God more than husband or wife, son or daughter, mother or father? Are we willing to love God more than our bank books? More than our churches, our countries, our reputations?




The way you ask these questions seems to illustrate that which you condemn. You have set this measure...."complete surrender" as the starting point for entering into the New Covenant. Yet Scripture does not support this. Scripture paints a picture of God's word being sent out to accomplish what He has determined to do. We love Him because He first loved us.

Paul identifies these as the sons of God:
....................................................................................................................
om 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
......................................................................................................................

Total surrender is accomplished in those who "if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.

It is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that one can learn what it means to "totally surrender." Anything else is of our own vain imagination.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/28 18:34Profile









 Re:

Rookie writes........

"The way you ask these questions seems to illustrate that which you condemn"

First of all Rookie, I condemned nothing, I merely stated the fact that there are ministers who labor and teach others to live under the OC and they are described in the word of God as ministers of death and condemnation.

As for total total surrender, or complete surrender, or absolute surrender, this is what Scripture, Old and New Testament calls for. Deuteronomy 4:29 , 6:4-5, 10:12, 11:13, 13:3, 26:16, 30:6, Joshua 22:5, 1 Sam 12:20,24, 1 Kings 2;4 , 14:8 2 Kings 10:30-31, 2 Kings 23:3,25 2 Chron 15:12 2 Chron 22:9 , 2 Chron 31:21 .

Our part is to give Him our whole heart, the Lord does the rest. Many men have cut themselves of from the world but have never been grafted into Christ.

Let me ask you a question Rookie, in Luke 14 we see....
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

What do you make of that Scripture brother? The lands are strewn with unfinished towers and men who have compromised with the enemy because they had only their own resources and it was insufficiant.

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

And the end results of those who did not surrender their all to Christ?

Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 2010/7/28 21:41
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Are the Gospels New Covenant scripture or are they old covenant scripture in the new testament that give an eye witness account and narrative of the messiah?

What are you thoughts on this? The answers could shed light on some commonly misunderstood things Jesus said.



 2010/7/29 5:04Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

The New Covenant was 'in his blood'. He lived on earth as the embodiment of that covenant.

“ I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles, Is 42:6

RainMan on 2010/7/29 7:04:57 writes...
Are the Gospels New Covenant scripture or are they old covenant scripture in the new testament that give an eye witness account and narrative of the messiah?

Thus says the LORD:
“ In an acceptable time I have heard You,
And in the day of salvation I have helped You;
I will preserve You and give You
As a covenant to the people,
To restore the earth,
To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages; Is 49:8

His death 'sowed' that life to reproduce it in those who were to be united with him.

In strict terms, as I see it, the New Covenant came into force, as a New Covenant, in Acts 2. From that time believers became Jesus's Witnesses in a similar way to the way in which Israel had been 'Jehovah's Witnesses'.

The time of the gospels was a time of unique transition. Technically, John was the last of the old era.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. Matt 11:13

Like the morning star, Venus, John's work was to finish with the dawn.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/7/29 6:24Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

appolus wrote:

Quote:
As for total total surrender, or complete surrender, or absolute surrender, this is what Scripture, Old and New Testament calls for. Deuteronomy 4:29 , 6:4-5, 10:12, 11:13, 13:3, 26:16, 30:6, Joshua 22:5, 1 Sam 12:20,24, 1 Kings 2;4 , 14:8 2 Kings 10:30-31, 2 Kings 23:3,25 2 Chron 15:12 2 Chron 22:9 , 2 Chron 31:21 .



yes, as you have quoted the requirements in the OT so we see that God expects all from those who lived in the generations that lived before Christ emptied Himself.
......................................................................................................................
Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! [fn]

Deu 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
......................................................................................................................

The Law of God required that they love God. Now we know that according to what Paul teaches, man without the Holy Spirit cannot satisfy the law of God. So are all who lived prior to Christ emptying of Himself condemned by the Law of God? How did the OT saints please God?


Quote:
Our part is to give Him our whole heart, the Lord does the rest. Many men have cut themselves of from the world but have never been grafted into Christ.



You see that whether it is the OT or the NT God requires that we do indeed set our response to the commandment that we give our whole heart to God.

You say that our part is to give our whole heart and then God does the rest. I say we cannot give our whole heart as is required by the Law first, because it is God who must do the work first to empower us to satisfy this law. This is really what this whole thread is about. Are we falling in the trap of trying to obey the law according to the flesh or have we found the power of the Holy Spirit working in our lives to accomplish what we ourselves cannot understand or do.

The difference between the Covenant given to Abraham and his descendants and the Covenant given to Israel on Mount Sinai is that the first had the Holy Spirit the second did not. The first covenant imputed Godly faith, the second imputed self-righteousness.

Again....
quote]Our part is to give Him our whole heart, the Lord does the rest. Many men have cut themselves of from the world but have never been grafted into Christ.



How has God empowered you to love Him?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/29 7:03Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Rainman,

A few pages back, I explained through Scripture that God called on Israel while they were still in Egypt to remove the false gods from their lives. And they did not obey. What covenant was this generation under during this point in history?

The post highlighted Ezekiel chapter 20.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/29 7:10Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

philolgos wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
No, it isn't. This is an example of you using an OT passage to illustrate a NT truth. Paul makes no mention of this passage in Rom 1.




Here is another question to you...

In today's copywrite laws would Paul be accused of plagerism (sp)?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/29 7:20Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

rookie on 2010/7/29 9:20:32 writes
"In today's copywrite laws would Paul be accused of plagerism (sp)?"

I am not sure why you are asking this but plagiarism is the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/7/29 8:33Profile





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