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RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:

Earlier in the thread I stated that Job knew the 10 commandments....

No one said anything, so does that mean that everyone is in agreement with this statement?



I would not concur with the view. Certain Rabbis believed that Job lived contemporary with Jethro and Baalam. They believe he refused to counsel Pharaoh and as a consequence suffered the punishment we read of in Job.* This is impossible because we are told in Job 42:16-17 that Job lived 140 years after his trial. This would have meant Job was still alive in the time of the Judges. If so he was living totally independent of the Old Covenant and its sacrificial system and priesthood. That would not have made for a righteous man. So at the very most he would have known the so-called 7 Noahchide laws as it is my view he lived contemporary with the patriarchs.


______________________________________________________________________
*Footnote

R. Hiyya b. Abba said in the name of R. Simai: There were three in that plan,28 viz. Balaam, Job and Jethro. Balaam who devised it was slain; Job who silently acquiesced was afflicted with sufferings; Jethro, who fled, merited that his descendants should sit in the Chamber of Hewn Stone,30 as it is said: And the families of scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, the Sucathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hammath, the father of the house of Rechab;31 and it is written: And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father-in-law etc.32 (Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sotah Folio 11a Various opinions are expressed in the Talmud regarding the age in which he lived. According to one view he was born in the year that Jacob settled in Egypt and died at the time of the Exodus, v. B.B. 15a-b.)



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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/23 4:16Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Robert wrote:

Quote:
That would not have made for a righteous man. So at the very most he would have known the so-called 7 Noahchide laws as it is my view he lived contemporary with the patriarchs



Are the Noahchide laws the same as the 10 commandments?

Secondly in the section of Scripture below...does this represent the Noachide laws?

..........................................................
Job 31:1 "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?

Job 31:2 For what is the allotment of God from above, And the inheritance of the Almighty from on high?

Job 31:3 Is it not destruction for the wicked, And disaster for the workers of iniquity?

Job 31:4 Does He not see my ways, And count all my steps?

Job 31:5 "If I have walked with falsehood, Or if my foot has hastened to deceit,

Job 31:6 Let me be weighed on honest scales, That God may know my integrity.

Job 31:7 If my step has turned from the way, Or my heart walked after my eyes, Or if any spot adheres to my hands,

Job 31:8 Then let me sow, and another eat; Yes, let my harvest be rooted out.

Job 31:9 "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, Or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door,

Job 31:10 Then let my wife grind for another, And let others bow down over her.

Job 31:11 For that would be wickedness; Yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment.

Job 31:12 For that would be a fire that consumes to destruction, And would root out all my increase.

Job 31:13 "If I have despised the cause of my male or female servant When they complained against me,

Job 31:14 What then shall I do when God rises up? When He punishes, how shall I answer Him?

Job 31:15 Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One fashion us in the womb?

Job 31:16 "If I have kept the poor from their desire, Or caused the eyes of the widow to fail,

Job 31:17 Or eaten my morsel by myself, So that the fatherless could not eat of it

Job 31:18 (But from my youth I reared him as a father, And from my mother's womb I guided the widow [fn]);

Job 31:19 If I have seen anyone perish for lack of clothing, Or any poor man without covering;

Job 31:20 If his heart [fn] has not blessed me, And if he was not warmed with the fleece of my sheep;

Job 31:21 If I have raised my hand against the fatherless, When I saw I had help in the gate;

Job 31:22 Then let my arm fall from my shoulder, Let my arm be torn from the socket.

Job 31:23 For destruction from God is a terror to me, And because of His magnificence I cannot endure.

Job 31:24 "If I have made gold my hope, Or said to fine gold, 'You are my confidence';

Job 31:25 If I have rejoiced because my wealth was great, And because my hand had gained much;

Job 31:26 If I have observed the sun [fn] when it shines, Or the moon moving in brightness,

Job 31:27 So that my heart has been secretly enticed, And my mouth has kissed my hand;

Job 31:28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, For I would have denied God who is above.

Job 31:29 "If I have rejoiced at the destruction of him who hated me, Or lifted myself up when evil found him

Job 31:30 (Indeed I have not allowed my mouth to sin By asking for a curse on his soul);

Job 31:31 If the men of my tent have not said, 'Who is there that has not been satisfied with his meat?'

Job 31:32 (But no sojourner had to lodge in the street, For I have opened my doors to the traveler [fn]);

Job 31:33 If I have covered my transgressions as Adam, By hiding my iniquity in my bosom,

Job 31:34 Because I feared the great multitude, And dreaded the contempt of families, So that I kept silence And did not go out of the door—

Job 31:35 Oh, that I had one to hear me! Here is my mark. Oh, that the Almighty would answer me, That my Prosecutor had written a book!

Job 31:36 Surely I would carry it on my shoulder, And bind it on me like a crown;

Job 31:37 I would declare to Him the number of my steps; Like a prince I would approach Him.

Job 31:38 "If my land cries out against me, And its furrows weep together;

Job 31:39 If I have eaten its fruit [fn] without money, Or caused its owners to lose their lives;

Job 31:40 Then let thistles grow instead of wheat, And weeds instead of barley." The words of Job are ended.
..........................................................

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/23 10:51Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Are the Noahchide laws the same as the 10 commandments?



Well, if Rabbinic sources are to be trusted they are the system of basic moral laws that existed after Noah's time. Personally I view any non-biblical source on these things as suspect.

We do know that there was at least a sense of right and wrong as it pertains to covenants.

And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What [is] this [that] thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she [was] thy wife? (Genesis 12:18)

After Noah there seemed to be a sense of certain do's and don'ts. It seems plausible that these were passed down. I doubt they were codified into 7 though. That is just my opinion. In time the Law had to be added because of transgressions until the Seed should come. This made Israel a unique people in the earth. This enforcement' of Law through the Old Covenant was akin to embalming a dead carcass. It could not give life- it could only attempt to preserve something already dead. Old Adam was alienated from the life of God making it impossible for him and those in him to consistently fulfill by nature the righteousness that is in the Law. They could only be restrained and guided by precepts.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/23 13:31Profile









 Re:

Jesus was the express image of the invisible God, and He obeyed the Mosaic Law, and is fulfilling it today ...tthough the priestly order has been renovated.

Yes, the fruits of the Spirit are evidence of God's regenerative work in us, and who will say that this work of regeneration does not draw us closer to conforming to the ways and will of Jesus Christ?

The Torah and every book thereafter is in revealtion a clearer and clearer expression of God's will.

The Law never ended. Only the ordinaces against us were nailed to the cross: namely, the curse of the Law. This is how we cannot be UNDER it('s penalty) anymore.

------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still not done with Galatians yet the key is evident.

...and it is not the Old covenant that was the producer of bondage. It is the producer "of children" unto bondage.

How can Paul say Torah and commandment is holy, right and good in one letter, and call the Covenant a producer of bondage in another?

Is bondage holiness, righteousness, and good?


Galatians is talking to a lesser extent the lawful use of the Law, right?


Agape,
g
Acts 20:32

p.s. will read your posts closer when time is available Rob.

 2010/7/23 21:02
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Galatians is talking to a lesser extent the lawful use of the Law, right?



Galatians is a book about a people that had begun in the Spirit (Galatians 3:3) but had been bewitched (Galatians 3:1) into thinking they could be made perfect by the flesh. They did run well, but had been hindered by this false teaching. They built again the things they had destroyed and were at risk of becoming transgressors. (2:18)

They were reminded that they received the Spirit NOT by the works of the Law, but by the hearing of faith (3:2). In fact, the people that were moving in the power of God were not doing it under the Law either but by the hearing of faith.

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Galatians 3:5)

Paul was afraid of them that he had labored there in vain and the people had run in vain. The people had BEGUN in the Spirit and were expected to continue in the Spirit. But some had come in to introduce the Law once again in an attempt to somehow find a higher level of perfection.

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:3)

This is a rhetorical question. How can people that are under the curse of the law be perfected by it?

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

No one on the face of the earth today is continuing in all things that are written in the book of the law, period. End of story. The entire covenant was connected to the sacrificial system that has not been rightly in place since at least prior to the Babylonian captivity. They have no Ark and no sacred fire. So it is impossible to continue in all things that are written in the law. And if one is attempting to be under that Old Covenant and are not continuing in all things that are written in the Law- they are cursed. That is the plain reading of Galatians 3:10.

What adds to the curse is that if one is promoting this alternative as opposed to life in the Spirit they are preaching a different Gospel and are in the cross-hairs of Galatians 1.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/23 22:10Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Robert wrote:

Quote:
Well, if Rabbinic sources are to be trusted they are the system of basic moral laws that existed after Noah's time. Personally I view any non-biblical source on these things as suspect.



So why then did you bother to even mention this when I asked about Job knowing the 10 Commandments?

When Paul taught the Bereans this is what he said of them....

..........................................................................................................................Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
.......................................................................................................................

Let us go directly to the Holy Scriptures with a readiness of mind and search to see if what I see in Scripture is true...

Going once again for the fourth time, Job speaks of some of the 10 commandments in this section of Scripture. This time I will segregate the Scriptures into distinct divisions.

................................................................................................................
Exd 20:3 ¶ Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
.................................................................................................................

this is that

...................................................................................................................
Job 31:24 "If I have made gold my hope, Or said to fine gold, 'You are my confidence';
Job 31:25 If I have rejoiced because my wealth was great, And because my hand had gained much;
Job 31:26 If I have observed the sun [fn] when it shines, Or the moon moving in brightness,
Job 31:27 So that my heart has been secretly enticed, And my mouth has kissed my hand;
Job 31:28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, For I would have denied God who is above.
....................................................................................................................




...................................................................................................................
Exd 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
....................................................................................................................

this is that

.......................................................................................................................
Job 31:9 "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, Or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door,
Job 31:10 Then let my wife grind for another, And let others bow down over her.
Job 31:11 For that would be wickedness; Yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment.
Job 31:12 For that would be a fire that consumes to destruction, And would root out all my increase.
....................................................................................................................



.....................................................................................................................
Exd 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
.....................................................................................................................

this is that

...................................................................................................................Job 31:1 "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?
Job 31:2 For what is the allotment of God from above, And the inheritance of the Almighty from on high?
Job 31:3 Is it not destruction for the wicked, And disaster for the workers of iniquity?
Job 31:4 Does He not see my ways, And count all my steps?
Job 31:5 "If I have walked with falsehood, Or if my foot has hastened to deceit,
Job 31:6 Let me be weighed on honest scales, That God may know my integrity.
Job 31:7 If my step has turned from the way, Or my heart walked after my eyes, Or if any spot adheres to my hands,
Job 31:8 Then let me sow, and another eat; Yes, let my harvest be rooted out.
......................................................................................................................



......................................................................................................................
Exd 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."
.....................................................................................................................

this is that

.....................................................................................................................
Job 31:16 "If I have kept the poor from their desire, Or caused the eyes of the widow to fail,

Job 31:17 Or eaten my morsel by myself, So that the fatherless could not eat of it

Job 31:19 If I have seen anyone perish for lack of clothing, Or any poor man without covering;

Job 31:21 If I have raised my hand against the fatherless, When I saw I had help in the gate;
Job 31:22 Then let my arm fall from my shoulder, Let my arm be torn from the socket.
Job 31:23 For destruction from God is a terror to me, And because of His magnificence I cannot endure.
...................................................................................................................



..................................................................................................................
Exd 20:13 "You shall not murder.
..................................................................................................................

this is that

......................................................................................................................
Job 31:29 "If I have rejoiced at the destruction of him who hated me, Or lifted myself up when evil found him
Job 31:30 (Indeed I have not allowed my mouth to sin By asking for a curse on his soul);
....................................................................................................................

also this is also that

....................................................................................................................
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, [fn] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'

Mat 5:22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause [fn] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
.....................................................................................................................


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/23 23:06Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Galatians 5:1



CHAPTER 5

1. Stand fast! Be not entangled! 1-6
2. Exhortations and the law of love. 7-15
3. Flesh and Spirit. 16-21
4. The Fruit of the Spirit. 22-26
The first exhortation is to maintain, by faith, the liberty which is found in Christ, to stand fast in that liberty where with Christ has made the believer free and not to be entangled again with the yoke of bondage. The believer has perfect liberty in Christ; he is absolutely dead to the law and the law is not to be used by him in any way. But verse 13, where the apostle speaks again of this liberty, must be brought in connection with the opening statement of this chapter. "For, brethren, ye have been called into liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." The liberty the believer has in Christ is to be used for holiness. When God redeems from the curse of the law it is a redemption unto holiness, to live a righteous and holy life; the holy Spirit indwelling the believer does not give license to live after the flesh.

But as being in Christ, dead to the law, if they become circumcised Christ would profit them nothing and they were bound to fulfill the whole law. Going back to the law for righteousness, they had fallen from grace. This is the only time "fallen from grace" is used in the Bible. It has been strangely misapplied by a certain system of theology to deny the security of the believer in Christ. It is generally used to describe a Christian who has fallen in sin and, as it is claimed, lost his relationship as a child of God and is, therefore, once more under judgment. Falling from grace does not mean this; it means to give up the grace of the gospel in order to satisfy the requirements of the law. To go back under the law and its bondage is falling from grace. Verse 5 does not mean that a believer hopes for righteousness; he possesses righteousness by faith. Indwelt by the Spirit, the believer waits not for righteousness, but for the hope of righteousness by faith. And the hope of righteousness is the coming glory, when all those who are saved by grace will be glorified and be like Christ.

Then the earnest pleadings and warnings. They had run well; who hindered them? It was Satan who had led them astray. Once more leaven is used. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Even so it is today in Christendom. The leaven of a perverted gospel has well nigh leavened everything. He was deeply concerned about the spiritual condition of these Galatian Christians. But while he was in doubt about them and he was overwhelmed with grief because they abandoned grace, his heart, after all, was also in peace about them. "I have confidence in you through the Lord that ye will be now otherwise minded." He cast them as his burden upon the Lord and he knew the Lord, who loveth His own, would after all bring it about that they would surely not be otherwise minded.

He who troubled them and bewitched them with that spurious gospel, whosoever he would be, would bear his judgment; and he wishes that these troublers were cut off. "And I, brethren, if I preach yet circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then is the offence of the cross ceased." He had probably been charged by some of endorsing circumcision and preaching it. If such were the case, what further excuse was there for the Jews to persecute him? If he were still preaching circumcision the offence of the cross would have been done away. Circumcision stands for the religion of the natural man. The religious spirit of the natural man is always in opposition to the true gospel. Difficulties will cease and the world will even applaud the preaching if the religion of the flesh, the "do-religion" -- "observe" -- "keep" -- "reform", etc., is proclaimed. Of this we see much today. The true gospel of grace, proclaimed upon the finished work of Christ, with nothing to do and nothing to pay, is still the same stumbling-block.

The believer possesses in Christ true liberty (verse 13); a liberty, as already stated, not to sin, but to walk and serve God in holiness. It is the liberty of the new nature, the divine nature, which gives power over sin. The law seeks to constrain the old nature, which is impossible; but it is the mighty constraint of love, given by the Holy Spirit. And that love is the fulfillment of the law. The law, as a rule, for the believer's life is, therefore, not needed. The gospel of grace sets the believer free and makes him happy in the assurance of God's love and his own salvation; and the Holy Spirit is there. Under His guidance and power, walking in the Spirit, the lust of the flesh will not be fulfilled. And the believer, walking thus, has the blessed assurance that sin shall not have dominion over him. "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Ro 6#14). The law had not the power to do this, but grace has delivered us from the law of sin and death (Ro 8#1-4).

In the preceding part of the Epistle he had set forth Christian justification by faith, in contrast with works of the law. He here shows that God produces holiness. Instead of exacting it, as did the law with regard to human righteousness, from the nature which loves sin, He produces it in the human heart, as wrought by the Spirit.

"This life, produced in us by the operation of the Holy Spirit through the word, is led by the Spirit who is given to believers; its rule is also in the word. Its fruit is the fruit of the Spirit. The Christian walk is the manifestation of this new life, of Christ our life, in the midst of the world. If we follow this path--Christ Himself--if we walk in His steps, we shall not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. It is thus sin is avoided, not by taking the law to compel man to do what he does not like; the law has no power to compel the flesh to obey, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither, indeed, can be. The new life loves to obey, loves holiness, and Christ is its strength and wisdom by the Holy Spirit. The flesh is indeed there; it lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit lusts against the flesh, to prevent man from walking as he would. But if we walk in the Spirit, we are not under the law." (Notes on Galatians--J. N. Darby)

The works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit are given in verses 19-23. In a more literal rendering, the works of the flesh, sixteen in number, are as follows: Fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strifes, jealousies, angers, contentions, disputes, factions, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revels and things like these. Such is the old nature of man and such the fruit it bears. They that do such things, living according to the flesh, shall not inherit God's kingdom. And only the power of the Spirit of God can deliver from the outworking of this fallen nature, the flesh, which is still in the believer. The Holy Spirit is in the child of God to manifest this power, but it means subjection to Himself.

The Spirit also produces His own blessed fruit in the life of the believer. The first three parts: Love, joy and peace. These give the blessed consciousness the believer has in his heart of his relationship to God, which consciousness comes through the Spirit. The other six parts: "long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control," witness in the believer's walk to the fact that the love, the joy and peace of God are realities in the soul. The believer who walks according to the Spirit manifests in his walk the fruit of the indwelling Spirit and against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh and its lusts. They have accepted the sentence of the cross which has put the old man with its lusts into the place of death. God declares us as dead with Christ and looks upon us thus (Col 3#3). And this great truth must be lived. The believer lives in the Spirit and is called upon to walk in the Spirit so that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in him. "Let us not be desirous of vain-glory (the law fosters such a spirit, but grace humbles), provoking one another, envying one another"--which is the sad effect of vain-glory, provocation and envy.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/7/23 23:55Profile
RobertW
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 Re:

Quote:
So why then did you bother to even mention this when I asked about Job knowing the 10 Commandments?




Because I'm not convinced Job knew the 10 Commandments as they were delivered by Moses. In my view Job lived long before Moses.

I would expect Job to walk in the revelation that he had. We know that there was a sense of right and wrong long before Moses. God instituted the death penalty for murder as a 'measure' to slow the spread of violence. There is even the concept of priesthood and propitiation in Job's time. What I believe is uncertain is that there were a codified 7 Laws the people were under as the Rabbi's have suggested. I tend to think they did not. You will know that the Rabbi's also suggest that there was an Oral Law passed down 'orally' from Moses also that was not written down till much later. I view that with utter suspicion. I do not trust them. As for the so-called Noachide or Noachain laws the list is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

The Rabbi's eventually codified the Law of Moses into 613 Laws (365 Neg and 248 Pos). They did a lot of things that destroy almost all confidence I could have had in their suggestions. I am more apt, again, to believe that Noah was a preacher of righteousness and passed down his understanding of right and wrong; not as a list of do's and dont's but as basic teachings of all that he understood about God. After all, the world had just been destroyed for it's lawlessness. It would only be reasonable that Noah would have passed to his progeny everything he knew.



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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/24 0:04Profile









 Re:

Bob and Ron,

herein lies the difference between our non-disuasions about issues disagreed regarding the New Covenant and the Old Covenant:

You think the Old Covenant is not God's grace ...yet it is the ultimate expression of God's grace in this kosmos, finally revealed in it's fullest expression through Jesus Christ, coming into complete fullness when this age ends.

You two do not think Law is grace, but Law is Grace:

Think not I AM come to abolish the law, or the prophets:
I AM not come to destroy, but to validate. Amin.

I say unto you, "Till heaven and earth pass away, one yud or one kotz in no manner shall pass away from the Law, till all has occured"

Not everybody that says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who is doing the will of my Father in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord..."

and then I shall declare to them, "I never knew you. Get away from me, you transgressors of the Law."

Mt. 5:17-18, 7:21, 22a, 23

Without God's grace, there would be no former nor freshening of the Everlasting Covenant.


Agape,
g


edited: 4clearnessity

 2010/7/24 0:04
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
You think the Old Covenant is not God's grace ...yet it is the ultimate expression of God's grace in this kosmos...



John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:15 ¶ John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The Old Covenant was in play until Jesus Christ (the Seed) came.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Consider how much greater the New Covenant than the old in that it is given by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (Hebrews 1:4)*

The problem for Israel is that many did not want even the Glory revealed in the Old Covenant. New Covenant means one thing for certain- MORE of God. If a person does not want MORE of GOd then the New Covenant is not for them.

2Cor. 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Cor. 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Cor. 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Cor. 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Cor. 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.






_____________________________________________________________________
*Footnote
It is not denied that the Son was essentially and eternally superior to the angels; but his glorification was conditioned upon his fulfillment of the requirements of his human state, and it is this that is emphasized. After having passed through the experience described in Philippians 2:6–8, he sat down on the right hand of the divine majesty as messianic sovereign, and so became or proved to be what in reality he was from eternity, superior to the angels. Τοσούτῳ— ὅσῳ so much - as. Never used by Paul. Κρείττων better, superior, rare in Paul, and always neuter and adverbial. In Hebrews thirteen times. See also 1 Peter 3:17; 2 Peter 2:21. Often in LXX. It does not indicate here moral excellence, but dignity and power. He became superior to the angels, resuming his preincarnate dignity, as he had been, for a brief period, less or lower than the angels (ch. 2:7). (Vincent)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/24 0:39Profile





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