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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

philologos,

Do you see that man is a product of either the spiritual influence of the devil or of the Holy Spirit?

Do you see that Scripture teaches that Cain is the product "seed" of the devil?

This is critical to understanding "what man becomes." Cain was condemned by the Law, and Able became a child of God.

This all started in Genesis 3:15. Those who are the "Seed" of the woman will experience enmity by those who are the "seed" of the devil. Upon what "dunamis" do we hope for?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/21 14:45Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 The Seed of the woman

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)

I believe it is impossible to rightly understand the New Covenant without this most important verse. The promises were made to Jesus Christ, the last Adam. The plurality of the seed are they that are heirs to the righteousness of God that is by faith- made possible only by the finished work of the cross. Nonetheless, we must understand that the promises were made to the Seed, which is Jesus Christ.

This opens the door to a host of questions. But first we have another important definition:

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:15, 16)

I have a translation note from the NET:

The word “and” (καί) can be interpreted in two ways: (1) It could be rendered as “also” which would indicate that two distinct groups are in view, namely “all who will behave in accordance with this rule” and “the Israel of God.” Or (2) it could be rendered “even,” which would indicate that “all who behave in accordance with this rule” are “the Israel of God.” In other words, in this latter view, “even” = “that is.”

The latter seems right. I buttress this view with two like passages:

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6)

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:25)


These are characteristics of a certain group of people. But who?


For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:27-29)

This is an 'if-then' statement. IF you are Christ's THEN you are Abraham's seed. This seems to make clear that the promises are to Jesus Christ in particular and by virtue of one having belonged to Christ and are 'IN' Christ they are the seed also. It is by this association with Jesus Christ that one is Abraham's seed. One cannot possibly reject Jesus Christ and retain the status of Abraham's seed. This is the clear warning of John Baptist:

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Matthew 3:9, 10)

This passage squares completely with Galatians 5. Since the beginning God has been setting about bringing many sons (and daughters) unto glory. Circumcision or uncircumcision means nothing. A person could be circumcised and act like the devil himself. God did not want that. He wanted 'sons'. He wanted creatures that were in His likeness; that is, of His loving and Godly nature. The Law gave us a picture of God's personality and is spiritual; but what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:3, 4)

This is made possible by the New Covenant to those that are 'IN' Christ Jesus. They are enabled by the Spirit to bring forth good fruit because Christ has dealt with the root (old Adam). If one is not in Christ- the AXE is laid to them and there is no hope but to be cast into the fire. They are not producing fruit because they are not 'in' the right root. They produce after the root of old Adam no matter if they are in remote jungles with no light or if they sit and hear the word every week.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:7ff)

The remedy for Hebrews 6:7-9 is to be 'In' Jesus Christ.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2010/7/21 21:02Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re: The Seed of the woman

Her seed is the ovaries of the woman, The enmity is Christ by the Seed of God The Father of us all, overshadowed by the Holy Spirit that Mary would conceive the Son of God, the only Begotten who would be the first born among many brethren, which are the Born Again believers the The Father has given the Son, He the Only Begotten, the born again, by the Father's same Seed, Jesus Christ in you the Hope of Glory, of whom He only lost One, the son of perdition, Judas, to fulfill the scriptures.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between thee and the woman - This has been generally supposed to apply to a certain enmity subsisting between men and serpents; but this is rather a fancy than a reality. It is yet to be discovered that the serpentine race have any peculiar enmity against mankind, nor is there any proof that men hate serpents more than they do other noxious animals. Men have much more enmity to the common rat and magpie than they have to all the serpents in the land, because the former destroy the grain, etc., and serpents in general, far from seeking to do men mischief, flee his approach, and generally avoid his dwelling. If, however, we take the word nachash to mean any of the simia or ape species, we find a more consistent meaning, as there is scarcely an animal in the universe so detested by most women as these are; and indeed men look on them as continual caricatures of themselves. But we are not to look for merely literal meanings here: it is evident that Satan, who actuated this creature, is alone intended in this part of the prophetic declaration. God in his endless mercy has put enmity between men and him; so that, though all mankind love his service, yet all invariably hate himself. Were it otherwise, who could be saved? A great point gained towards the conversion of a sinner is to convince him that it is Satan he has been serving, that it is to him he has been giving up his soul, body, goods, etc.; he starts with horror when this conviction fastens on his mind, and shudders at the thought of being in league with the old murderer. But there is a deeper meaning in the text than even this, especially in these words, it shall bruise thy head, or rather, הוא hu, He; who? the seed of the woman; the person is to come by the woman, and by her alone, without the concurrence of man. Therefore the address is not to Adam and Eve, but to Eve alone; and it was in consequence of this purpose of God that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin; this, and this alone, is what is implied in the promise of the seed of the woman bruising the head of the serpent. Jesus Christ died to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself, and to destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil. Thus he bruises his head - destroys his power and lordship over mankind, turning them from the power of Satan unto God; Ac 26:18. And Satan bruises his heel - God so ordered it, that the salvation of man could only be brought about by the death of Christ; and even the spiritual seed of our blessed Lord have the heel often bruised, as they suffer persecution, temptation, etc., which may be all that is intended by this part of the prophecy.

Jesus Christ the Seed of the Father and the seed of the woman. To Him be glory for ever and ever. Amen

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/7/21 22:11Profile
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 Re:

Oh! By the way;

Perfect post Robert W. in every aspect of the truth in Jesus Christ our God, Savior and Brother to our Father.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/7/21 22:17Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
This is critical to understanding "what man becomes." Cain was condemned by the Law, and Able became a child of God.



The 'Law' did not exist in the time of Cain and Abel.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/22 5:34Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: The Seed of the woman

I am with you all the way with this Robert.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/22 5:37Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re: The Seed of the woman

Robert wrote:

Quote:
This is an 'if-then' statement. IF you are Christ's THEN you are Abraham's seed. This seems to make clear that the promises are to Jesus Christ in particular and by virtue of one having belonged to Christ and are 'IN' Christ they are the seed also. It is by this association with Jesus Christ that one is Abraham's seed. One cannot possibly reject Jesus Christ and retain the status of Abraham's seed.



Yes, yes, yes.

Paul teaches about how this promise is appropriated to those who become the children of God....through the Seed of the woman....

.......................................................................................................................Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
......................................................................................................................

Abraham and all who learn to live by faith take on His righteousness. Faith has always been the means by which God has freed men from the bondage of sin and death. And Christ has always been the mediator between the Father and those who submit their lives to Him. Christ is the wisdom of God, Christ is the power of God unto salvation. Those who are transformed by the Holy Spirit's power, those who experience the grace which changes the hope for which they live, these will take on the righteousness of Christ. Therefore we grow into the "image" of Christ. This is done through the "dunamis" of the Holy Spirit.

For Paul differentiates those who are of the flesh and those who are of God.

...................................................................................................................
Rom 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
..................................................................................................................

The children of the promise are counted as the seed. When the Holy Spirit comes upon a person, it is God working to secure that promise in the individual. Only those who are born from above are removed from Satan's grasp and are adopted as children of God. Abel was a child of God. Cain was a child of Satan.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/22 7:17Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re: The Seed of the woman

Robert wrote:

Quote:
This passage squares completely with Galatians 5. Since the beginning God has been setting about bringing many sons (and daughters) unto glory. Circumcision or uncircumcision means nothing. A person could be circumcised and act like the devil himself. God did not want that. He wanted 'sons'. He wanted creatures that were in His likeness; that is, of His loving and Godly nature.



Again, yes, yes, yes.

The history of saints who walked with God is glorious. And this history of God's work, His lovingkindness extended to man which enabled man to know Him is wonderful. I can only imagine when Jesus expired on the cross, and then went to preach the gospel, how those saints in Abraham's bosom understood more fully that is was Christ whom they had learned to love in their generation. It was Christ who enabled man to know God. It was Christ who spoke to Abel and Cain. It is Christ who was the mediator, the High Priest Melchizedek.

Christ and only Christ.

In Christ
jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/22 8:22Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

philologos wrote:

Quote:
The 'Law' did not exist in the time of Cain and Abel.



Why does Scripture testify of the offering of sacrifice?

But this is only a side thougth to the question I asked of you...

The power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the devil which is "dunamus"(sp) acts upon all men in all generations. What does this precept mean to us?

Paul is always talking about the weakness of the flesh in comparison to the power of the Holy Spirit when defining who are the children of God, who are the "adopted"

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/22 8:32Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: adoption

Quote:
Paul is always talking about the weakness of the flesh in comparison to the power of the Holy Spirit when defining who are the children of God, who are the "adopted" [/quote

adoption is a very rich and wonderful topic but not to be confused with modern day adoptions. Today we think of adoption as a means of providing protection for the infant. This is not the idea in the Biblical use of adoption. Julius Caesar 'adopted' Octavius who became Augustus but Octavius was a man when he was adopted. In ancient times a man was adopted to maintain the dynasty or line. Hadrian said that 'adopted sons were better than natural children because they were chosen'.

The Greek word for adoption is 'son placing'; it refers to a public acknowledgment that the adopted person was now the heir of the one adopting him The adopted person lost all his previous 'rights and responsibilities' but inherited all those of his adopted father.

There was an interesting case in the UK recently. A man was traced who was the nearest relative of someone who had died without making a will. The deceased relative had left several thousand Briish pounds. They traced the natural son and he was very excited at the prospect of the inheritance, but there was a hitch. The man's mother and father divorced and the woman remarried. The young son stayed with the mother and was adopted by his 'step father'.

This had the effect that he became legal heir to the new father but lost all his rights to the estate of his natural father. He was not eligible for the inheritance. Adoption is not a pretty picture of care but a legal change in inheritance and destiny.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/22 14:19Profile





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