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ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Robert said, "The New Covenant brings to the table possibilities that never before existed."

Amen, Robert. I've appreciated this thread. The New Covenant to me... it's like finding great spoil, rich treasure. It's full of wonders. But obviously-- the confusion apparent in some of the posts here confirms this-- we are living in a day when its wonders and riches are scarcely understood. Here we are some two thousand years down the road from the time when this awesome covenant was "cut" ...and we find ourselves in a day when there is little New Covenant reality to be found in most of what is called Christendom. I continue to be much perplexed, and saddened, when I read posts by those who set themselves forth as defenders and champions of things written under the Old Covenant... when those very things have been brought into their true significance and reality-- the reality God had in mind when He set them forth in the first place-- in a NEW Covenant.

"But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, which was established upon BETTER promises" (Heb. 8.6).

Lord, help us all with the scales that are on our eyes. Anoint our eyes with eyesalve that we might SEE.


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Allan Halton

 2010/7/17 11:26Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
However it IS one of the descriptions used of Pentecost and of the Cornelius event. "“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy." Acts 2:17–18 NKJV "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear." Acts 2:33 NKJV ... and Peter says plainly... this is that... "And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also." Acts 10:45 NKJV the 'outpouring' and the 'indwelling' are not opposite points of view but different ways of describing the same event. However we cannot say, as Jeff has said, that 'outpouring' is another term for 'baptism in Spirit' even though the terms are used to describe the same event.




I am not trying to say that scripture does not use the expression "poured out". The implication of the way it is used is that God "pours out" His Holy Spirit afresh each time someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit was a one time event. It happened on the day of Pentecost and does not need repeating. The comforter has come, is here, and need only be received. That is the reason for saying that "poured out" may have not been the best way to describe what happened. Notice that those of the circumcision were astonished, not at a new or different pouring out, but at the fact that the pouring out applied to gentiles as well as Jews. It amazed them that those who were not the "covenant people" were also included in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.


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Travis

 2010/7/17 11:37Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 the simple gospel

There is no doubt that there is no need for extensive study of the scriptures to become a true child of God, however we are expected to... grow up...

"Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature." 1 Cor 14:20 NKJV

We are enjoined to...

"So he answered and said, ““You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”" Luke 10:27 NKJV

... and that includes bringing our thinking into line with God's. One of the ways of doing that is to study the Scriptures to understand what God has done.

It is often said that the gospel is simple and it is but what sin has done to the human race is very complex because human beings are complex creatures. The cross, as a principle and as a dynamic reality in personal life, touches everything that sin has spoiled. God's method of dealing with Sin as the root, sins as the consequence and 'I' that needs daily dealing are all different. I am convinced that many saints struggle it differentiating just how God deals in different ways. Let me illustrate...

you may pray 'Lord, crucify my desires and choices'. However, the scripture says that 'I must crucify them, through the Spirit'. This is my responsibility not God's.

you may pray 'Lord, crucify my old man'. However Paul, speaking in the Spirit, says that for those 'in Christ' 'our old man has already been co-crucified with Christ'. This is God's responsibility not mine.

The reason I launched this thread was because I am constantly thrilled with the comprehensive way in which God has provided for my need. Because sin impacted my in many different ways God has made different provisions for those impacts. Some are still in the future, my new body will have to wait. However the New Covenant shows how God purposes to work his salvation in each life.

Jer 31 shows that my inward condition of a stoney heart and spirit dead to God are wonderfully changed by the gift of a new heart and a new spirit. My need of power to live as God intended is met by the gift of his own Spirit to dwell within me. And all this is based on God being 'just and the justifier of those who believe on Jesus'. My sins are forgiven and God has chosen to remember them no more. All this excites me. To share this with others in our pilgrimage is my deepest joy.

The Brethren Bible scholar Thomas Newberry believed in what he called 'the lights and perfections' of revelation in the inspired scriptures. By that he meant that there are exquisite details and precisions that God has built into the Book. The Bible is a thrilling network of promises and truths. It has a unique feature in that it coheres on the surface and the deeper you dig the more this extraordinary cohesion is revealed.

I believe passionately that the Bible is the inspired word of God and while we are on the topic I believe that every word was inspired and the the Bible is without error or fault. Part of the reason I believe that so passionately is the daily discovery of the miracle of inter-connectedness in this Book. It was written over 2000 years in 3 different languages by men who never knew each other and who often had no knowledge of what the others had written and yet it coheres. This is a miracle.

I know that my style annoys some. I am sorry for that but this is who I am and like the lepers of old I cannot stumble upon staggering treasures and keep that knowledge to myself. My diggings in the scripture only increase my personal love and devotion to the one who love me and gave himself for me. My relationship with God is simple, I rely upon the Spirit's energies and an Advocate in the heavens.

Do not be afraid of examining this book. If you do it in dependence upon God you will not become a theological egg-head. If I were a world class meteorologist that fact would not stop me appreciating the wonders of a sunset, it might even add to the pleasure.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/17 15:09Profile
TheophilusMD
Member



Joined: 2003/12/1
Posts: 124
New Jersey

 Re: the simple gospel

From the very beginning, this thread has been a blessing to me. More and more the promise of God's rest has become clearer. Indeed it is in believing that we obtain the promise because in the new covenant He said, in essence, "you believe, I will do."

I thank Bro. Ron B. for starting this thread. As far as sin is concerned I can relate with what he said:

Quote:
The reason I launched this thread was because I am constantly thrilled with the comprehensive way in which God has provided for my need. Because sin impacted my in many different ways God has made different provisions for those impacts. Some are still in the future, my new body will have to wait. However the New Covenant shows how God purposes to work his salvation in each life.



There is a deepening sense of that need of God, even now, and I can only run to Him in worship and thanksgiving. If only for that deeper understanding, the laying hold of the truth, yes, of God Himself, this thread is worth more than words could ever express.


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Rey O.

 2010/7/17 17:23Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Robert quoted:

Quote:
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; (Philippians 3:2ff)



Please look carefully to what Paul says at the end of this thought...

"that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law..."

Paul's desire was to be found not having any self righteousness that comes from following the law. He points to a faith that is God given.

Paul was writing this letter to the Philippians to spure them onto maturity. We know that the Galatians had the same problem. They began in the Spirit but sunk back living according to the strength in the flesh.

Paul writes to the Romans, in chapter 8 that only those who put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit will live. The issue is that as long as we choose not to listen to the Spirit we will no fulfill the law as Christ fulfilled the law.

He is the author of salvation, therefore it is by the power of the Spirit that we too can know the "life" that saves.

IN Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/19 13:02Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

twayneb wrote:

Quote:
That is the reason for saying that "poured out" may have not been the best way to describe what happened. Notice that those of the circumcision were astonished, not at a new or different pouring out, but at the fact that the pouring out applied to gentiles as well as Jews. It amazed them that those who were not the "covenant people" were also included in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.



Jesus said this to His disciples:
...........................................................

Act 1:4 And being assembled together with [them], He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," [He said], "you have heard from Me;

Act 1:5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

..........................................................

and then

..........................................................
Act 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me [fn] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
.........................................................

Jesus declares that the "Promise of the Father" is this...
"you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit (has come upon you;) brackets added to focus reader on Jesus's words.

The dispensational teachings of men are not supported by the Holy Scriptures.

Secondly, Pentecost is not the only time, according to Scripture, that this out pouring is to occur. Go back to the book of Joel, does Pentecost satisfy the entire prophesy that Peter declared?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2010/7/19 13:14Profile









 Re: the simple gospel

Reply to Philologos; What I enjoy enjoy must about the testimony of a Christian, such as yourself, is the spirit of prophecy (Rev.19;10) which is not about you! Don't you tire of hearing about their days in taverns,etc. that passes off today as testimony; when Saint Paul says; "For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret." (Eph.5:12) ....and yet they speak of them! The Spirit is the instrument that God uses to seal us and uses our lips to offer praise and recognition to one who died fro us. Too often today people think that the emphasis is directed toward the Holy Ghost(worthy of praise)but Jesus Christ directs in John 16:13 that God is glorified when all our eyes are on Jesus Christ, glorifying him . I enjoy when someone tells about the "simplicity" in Christ, knowing that the gospel of our salvation can be understood and accepted by "a child" or as the Lord said in Matt. 18:3 we excercise "child like" faith/ both ways it brings us to Christ...old or young. Thank you Philologos for bringing us back to the cross of Calvary! Tractsman

 2010/7/19 13:30









 Re:

The new covenant; Please forgive me I respond in the wrong section of a thread, i got a little lost in the small print. Here comes my thooughts; Regarding The New Testament...testament is the right word, when you write out a will you call it your last will and testament. (read Hebrews 10:15-180"the death of the testator." In the matter of semantics, I would disagree that Christ did not iniate the New Covenant/Testament at the cross...he confirmed it. God purposed before the foundation of the world that a body of believers, Jew and Gentile, see Isa. 42:1/49"6 and thru the Book of Acts that the Gentiles were not an afterthought in the New Testament; Samaritian women, Centurions sevant and the Syrophoenician women all Gentiles dealt with by Christ during his "supposed" Jewish ministry. The Book of Hebrews is predicated on the principle that as was afore.mentioned that Christ was better in every way starting with Hebrews 1:4; "Better than the angels." I will leave you with that as my grandfather was scared by a loquacious linguist and I was left with the gift of gab. Handy for preaching, but only if a shepherd's hook is handy. Remember that that those that opposed Christ said; "The old is better." (Luke 5:339) Tractsman

 2010/7/19 14:00
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The dispensational teachings of men are not supported by the Holy Scriptures.



Jeff, unless you are still making animal sacrifices you believe in dispensations.


Quote:
Secondly, Pentecost is not the only time, according to Scripture, that this out pouring is to occur. Go back to the book of Joel, does Pentecost satisfy the entire prophesy that Peter declared?


The 'latter times' terminus quo is the day of Pentecost. The last days stretch from the coming of the Seed to the end of time. Peter, quoting Joel, is declaring that the last times have begun.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/20 4:36Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
In the matter of semantics, I would disagree that Christ did not iniate the New Covenant/Testament at the cross...he confirmed it. God purposed before the foundation of the world that a body of believers, Jew and Gentile, see Isa. 42:1/49"6 and thru the Book of Acts that the Gentiles were not an afterthought in the New Testament;


If you buy a house and take out an insurance policy there will be a point at which the policy becomes active. Up until that time you may examine the legal documents and find much comfort in the promises it contains but it is not 'in force' until the date on the policy...

check out these scriptures and see if you can identify the 'date' on the policy. ;-)

““Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; Galatians 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Galatians 4:1–5 KJV)

“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” (John 7:37–39 KJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2010/7/20 4:42Profile





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