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 Re:

Fieldlaborer writes.......

"What are the deeds of the Nicolaitans? From what I have read it can be defined this way: Antinomianism: A belief that is based upon a recognition of the mercy of God as the ground of salvation, but it makes the fatal mistake that man can freely partake in sin because the Law of God is no longer binding."

This was not the Nicolatians but the gnostics. Antinomianism is a flagrant dis-regard for the commandments of God. If one would like to see how the Holy Spirit delt with gnosticism, read Colossians. When error is taught, teach the truth. The truth spoken in love is the power of God working in perfect harmony. Its not one or the other, it must be both. Just as the Lord must be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth, so we must share the Truth in love. Loving one's enemies is not a weak position, it is the strongest postition.

Did the Apostles speak out against Artemis? Did they speak out against the Romans and their Gods? No, they spoke the Truth in love and were killed for it. They spoke of Jesus. They had no agenda against any particular groups of the day, they simply focused on the Truth which, by the way, is more than enough to get you in a world of trouble. If you wanted to see the downfall of Artemis, you did not preach against Artemis, you taught that there was but one God and let the people come to their own conclusions.

If anyone wants a cause, take on the cause of Truth. Highlight that. Lift up the name of Jesus , speak boldy and declare His Truth, stay focussed on that and the kingdom of darkness will tremble. The trouble today is that issues become political, and there in none more so that the Homosexual issue. It becomes a wedge issue and politicians use and abuse both sides in the issue to gain power and position.

On a personal note, to me, one is either saved or they are not. There is a line and you are on the right side of the line, saved, or the wrong side of the line, unsaved. Now some unsaved people look worse than other unsaved people. Some people wear their sin on their sleeves and it is plain and abhorrent. Yet the Word of God says that their righteousness is like filthy rags, all of it falls short of the glory of God. If we can truly look at the unsaved world with equality, meaning, seeing them all as lost, whether the respectable suburbanite, or the murderer behind bars, the prostitute that walks the street and so on, then we are in a good place. Let us always speak the truth in love, in that we cannot go far wrong.......Frank

 2010/2/20 21:59









 Re:

HI Maryjane,

I understand where you are coming from. My own grandmother came close to accpeting Jesus, then she turned back to Catholicism and her worship of Mary and she died this way. That was on my dads side. On my mums side, two of my uncles, having an unction from the Holy Spirit, pleaded with my other grandmother to surrender her life to Jesus. She rejected them and told them that she was a good person(which she was) and that she never harmed anyone. It was explained to her how that was not enough, but it was rejected, a year later she dropped dead at the age of 60. Both my grandmothers rejected Jesus, its sad but its true.

Your mother knows where you are coming from. You have shared the Truth with her, of that I have no doubt, so now the case becomes, how should you be with her. I say that you should love her and pray for her but not cast your pearls down. If there is to be movement with your mother, then it has to be the work of the Lord. Love her and take any openings that you can get with her. I will be praying for your mother. May we hear one day on this forum the testimony of your mother...........Frank

 2010/2/20 22:38









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Quote:
I say that you should love her and pray for her but not cast your pearls down.

My Aunt is this way too. I earnestly prayed for her with much yearning that she'd be saved. She is a bitter woman but after sometime had passed God spoke to me and said that He had heard my prayer and that in the end He would save her. I left off praying for her because the matter was settled, I trust the LORD to fulfill His promise. I am saying this to be encouraging, that earnestly praying for ones kin can go a long way against the kingdom of darkness.

I remember my Pastor prayed earnestly for his children to come back to the LORD. From His own mouth while interpreting a message in tongues, God said that He would bring them in, NOT YOU! I remember the force of those words and how God would do the work and it wouldn't be by the hand of their Dad. A few years later he died and he never saw them come in, but they will.

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. God loves your Mother and He knows that you have a desire to save her. God loves it when we apprehend Him and take a hold of Him and we won't let go until we are blessed.

The woman came day after day to that unjust judge so that she could reclaim her property. Her secret was she pressed in and never gave up until she got what she came for. I like that don't you? There is something about pressing in and the determination to obtain what we have come to God for.

Casual prayer won't work, it never does. There is a lot of casual praying. There is no real heart felt faith towards God, it's a prayer that is filled with if ands or buts. But the man of faith ignores those hindrances and pushes beyond that and does not accept NO for an answer.

 2010/2/21 5:54









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Quote:
We can't give up biblical truth and think that is love, that is not love, not telling them truth.

Do you mean telling them that they are living in sin?

I really don't believe that we should tell the world they are living in sin, that is the Holy Spirits department. Our job is to tell them the remedy for sin Jesus Christ and the good news of reconciliation. The Holy Spirit will convince the world of sin. For me to stand there and point the finger is not my place, we need to leave that to the Spirit of God. There will be at times when the Spirit may speak through a man concerning another man's sin, but it's the Spirits work to convict hearts. This world is not blind to sin, they know what sin is. But what they don't know is Jesus Christ and the forgiveness that comes to a heart that believes and repents.

I am going to insert this: "He that hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit is saying".

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying. This is not a softy softy gospel that I am presenting. The Holy Ghost knows how to bring people in, we speak of Jesus and His love for fallen humanity, if we've got the genuine goods on the inside of us then the holy Ghost will work in hearts that are listening about the love of Jesus Christ for them and be drawn to that love by the conviction power of the Holy Spirit. No fingers are pointed, no one is being condemned, all came to repentance by the Spirits working in them convincing them that they need to be saved from their sins.

More damage is done with these bible thrashers out on the street thinking they are doing a service for God, trying to act like Charles Finney or some other fire and brimstone hell bent preachers.

HOWEVER, in the Church it's a whole different ball game. WE, you and I, we need to be put in our place. We need to be told to stop sinning and we know better, we have been enlightened. We need correction and rebuke.

The more Holy we are the greater the harvest.

 2010/2/21 6:21









 Re:

Frank, thank you for writing this, it just confirmed what I had written in my previous post. I had read this after I post my last post beneath this one and I was refreshed in reading it. Sometimes I go out on a limb and I think that I am alone in doing so, but here you go and write something that just confirms it. Thank you Jesus. Here is what you wrote:

Quote:
I think right there is a good point to talk about. I will give you an example from my own life. Prior to coming to Christ I was a drunk. I got saved at the age of 26. By that time I had been married for nine years, lost one child and had a six year old. Often when I was drunk I would go visit my mother, a very Godly woman. It must have grieved her heart to see her oldest son turn out just like his father. Not one time did she rebuke me for my lifestyle or my drinking, not once. She would talk about Jesus. She would speak from her heart and share what Jesus has spoken into her heart that day or what He was doing in her life or how much she loved Jesus, it was interwoven into everything she did and said. My very cold heart would always be slightly warmed in her presence. I felt tremendous conviction about my lifestyle, not because she rebuked me for it, but because the Holy Spirit was about His work, convicting me and wooing me. I continued to to visit her. Would I have continued to visit her if I got lectures? I doubt it. oh, what am I trying to say? I guess what I am trying to say that it is the Holy Spirit that does the convicting of sin. We are commissioned to share the Gospel and make disciples, to share the good news. And what is the good news? That God so loved the world that He gave His only Son for it? Yes, I think that is it. Do all men already know they are sinners? Yes, according to Scripture they do.

 2010/2/21 6:29
fieldlaborer
Member



Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


 Re:

Reading snufalapagus and appolus responses I hear a lot of "I think" "I believe" "I am saying." That is wonderful to have beliefs and experiences however it can not replace scripture. According to Christs own words we are to preach a gospel of repentance and remission of sins.

Luke 24:46-47 (KJV)
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

How are we supposed to preach repentance under your terms? From what I read you agree with Dan Merchant that we (meaning Christians) should repent to the lost. When we preach a gospel of repentance it implies that there is something that people need to repent from, sin. Telling people that God loves them, but never mentioning their need to repent goes against scripture, it might feel good to do that but its wrong.

I agree that there are those that preach repentance out of self-righteousness. That is just as much an error as not preaching repentance at all. The first epistle of John reminds us that we have all sinned, and none should think to highly of himself. Preaching repentance does not mean to exalt yourself, but exalt Christ who has paid the price for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I used to wonder what Paul was talking about in 2 Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

What Paul is talking about is evident in this movie. It is a godly thing to reach out in love to people, after all God sent His only Son to die for us. There is a denying the power of the cross when we do not preach repentance. Show me in Lord Save Us From Your Followers where repentance is preached. We can tell people that Jesus died for them all day long, but if we leave out their need to come to repentance we have denied the power of the cross. And yes to preach that one must repent means to let the lost know they are lost and are in sin, that they must repent to be saved. All this must be done out of love, not fear, not hate, not self-righteousness, but love.

Last, why do you feel the need to attack Charles Finney?

Quote:
More damage is done with these bible thrashers out on the street thinking they are doing a service for God, trying to act like Charles Finney or some other fire and brimstone hell bent preachers.



If I see half of the converts Finney saw in my lifetime I will be praising God all the way to glory for blessing my ministry.


 2010/2/22 9:16Profile









 Re:

Quote.....

" That is just as much an error as not preaching repentance at all. "

Now who ever said that? The leaps that people make are quite astonishing. I myself am a big fan of Finney. He was a man definately called of God, of that I have no doubt. Yet, all of which I refer to is in peoples everyday life, their interactions with their friends and family and co-workers. How is it when anyone speaks of grace and love and mercy, there is always someone jumping up and down on the sidelines shouting "license for sin, license for sin." :) I believe they accused the Apostle Paul of the very same thing. When we look at Calvary, we see the perfect harmony of judgement and mercy. It happens simaltaneously. The problem today is that most are either in the mercy camp or the judgement camp, the Holy Spirit marries them together perfectly. Only by walking in Truth and love, Spirit and Truth, can we move with the same kind of power that made the crowd shout out "what must we do to be saved." Paul was preaching under such power and the crowd were stabbed in the heart. The word is Katanusso. When Jesus was pierced with the spear, the word was nusso. Katanusso is a much more violent word yet this is the word that the Holy Spirit uses to describe the effect of Peters preaching. Its the perfect amalgm. It pierces, violently agitates, penetrates the hardest of hearts. There is a reason why 92% of Christians have never saw any one come to Christ by their personal sharing. There is a reason why the Spiritual state of this country is in a nose-dive. And its not the big bad world, newsflash, the world has alaways been big and bad. No, its when Gods people are not walking in the Spirit, when they become worldy, then darkness descends. Now we know the Scripture well, If my people, who are called by my name, would turn from "their," wicked ways.........." You see, while Christians are satisfied at pointing the finger at the world and all the various groups that make up the bad old world, then nothing will be achieved. But, when they repent of their own wicked worldly ways and get right with God, get revived,get on fire for Him, open up the door that He is knocking on, return to their first love, then you will see the light penetrate the darkness and penetrate the hard hearts of unbelievers, whether homosexual or otherwise........Frank

 2010/2/22 11:04
fieldlaborer
Member



Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


 Re:

Appolus,

Quote:
" That is just as much an error as not preaching repentance at all. " Now who ever said that? The leaps that people make are quite astonishing



I didn't say you said that but this is what is happening in churches all across the country. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. I didn't reply to this thread to start an argument with anyone, but to express my frustration with what is happening with this movie. I don't know if you have had time to read this post, I think there are some good things we should all look at.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32726&forum=40]95 Thesis[/url]

I agree that we must first come to repentance before we can preach it, I thought that was a given. I am not afraid of the big bad world as you like to call it, just concerned about people on their way to hell with a false sense of God's love. That God's mercy is enough and we can live our life anyway we want, this is what the Nicolaitans taught, why you felt the need to dispute that is beyond me.

I never once said that we should just point our finger at the world and tell them their the reason for all our troubles. On the other hand if we don't get our lives right and start preaching repentance as Jesus commanded we are in for a whole lot more trouble as a nation.

Back to the reason for this thread, this movie is dangerous because it promotes the idea that we should just love everyone without the preaching of repentance. Love everyone, absolutely, not showing the lost their need for salvation, absolutely not. Will preaching repentance bring division? Yes. That's why it baffles me as to why Dan Merchant can't figure this out, Christ said division would take place.

One last thing snufalapagus, you said:

Quote:
Frank, thank you for writing this, it just confirmed what I had written in my previous post. I had read this after I post my last post beneath this one and I was refreshed in reading it. Sometimes I go out on a limb and I think that I am alone in doing so, but here you go and write something that just confirms it. Thank you Jesus



Using other peoples posts to confirm what you believe can lead you places you don't want to go. Use the Word of God instead.

This will be my last post on this thread don't want to turn it into some long argument when I have already said what was on my heart.

 2010/2/22 12:03Profile









 Re:

HI Fieldlaborer,

There is no argument, you simply made an assertion which reflected on my post and I corrected that. As for the 95 thesis, I have read it and agree with it 100%. I think what snufalapagus was saying was that he had a position, based on Scripture, and was glad to see someone else agree with him. I agree that the fact someone else agrees with you niether makes your position right or wrong, but it may be a wee bit unfair to say that was how he came to believe what he believed...........Frank

edit........98% may be more accurate :)

 2010/2/22 12:23









 Re:

Quote:
How is it when anyone speaks of grace and love and mercy, there is always someone jumping up and down on the sidelines shouting "license for sin, license for sin." :) I believe they accused the Apostle Paul of the very same thing. When we look at Calvary, we see the perfect harmony of judgment and mercy. It happens simultaneously. The problem today is that most are either in the mercy camp or the judgment camp, the Holy Spirit marries them together perfectly. Only by walking in Truth and love, Spirit and Truth, can we move with the same kind of power that made the crowd shout out "what must we do to be saved." Paul was preaching under such power and the crowd were stabbed in the heart. The word is Katanusso. When Jesus was pierced with the spear, the word was nusso. Katanusso is a much more violent word yet this is the word that the Holy Spirit uses to describe the effect of Peters preaching

The whole post was great brother Frank, loved every minute of it.

Smith Wigglesworth had an experience of what Frank and I are trying to convey, and I don't mean to drag your name into this Frank, it's not like we are teamed up together to go against anyone here. I am passionate that this is the right way, that this is what God intended for His Church to be, to stand and see the salvation of God work in and through people while they deliver a non condemning message of grace to a people whom Jesus Christ has cleansed by His blood. I used to be afraid of Grace and I wrapped my life around legalism. But through cooperation with the holy Ghost He removed that garment and replaced it with His grace. But this is what Wigglesworth said:
Quote:
I remember once I was traveling to Cardiff in South Wales. I had been much in prayer on the journey. The carriage was full of people whom I knew to be unsaved, but there was so much talking and joking I could not get in a word for my Master. As the train was nearing the station, I thought I would wash my hands so I should be ready to go straight to the meeting. I went along the corridor, and as I returned to the carriage, a man jumped up and said, “Sir, you convince me of sin,” and fell on his knees there and then. Soon the whole carriage of people were crying out the same way. They said, “Who are you? What are you? You convince us all of sin.” It was a great opportunity that God had given me, and you may be sure that I made the best of it. Many souls were born into the kingdom of God in that railway carriage.

Here is a holy man, filled with the Spirit and he didn't even open his mouth. He didn't call anyone a filthy rotten sinner, they KNEW THEY WERE SINNERS.

 2010/2/24 20:46





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