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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Difference Between Holiness and Legalism ?

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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: holiness, without it you won't see God

Quote:
HeartSong wrote:
Legalism is applying "the law" to others.

Holiness is applying "the law" to oneself.


I believe I understand what she wrote, maybe I’m wrong but it’s not legalism.

You guys are so focused on the word “holiness” that you shut others down if you perceive they have gotten it wrong. THAT is legalism, my dear friends! :)

[b]Do we not realize that holiness is an individual issue that no man can judge? [/b]

In the parable of Matthew 20.1-16 Every man that worked received a penny; from those that labored all day to those that only worked one hour. The ones who had been there the longest (to me who thought they knew it ALL), murmured against the good man of the house about the younger ones getting to much.

The person who newly comes to Christ, if they are doing what is required of them, they are holy. If the person that has walked with Christ 65 years, if they are still doing what Christ has called them to do, they are holy.

I have looked and looked through the Bible for a set of rules for holiness and there is none! Read 1 Cor 7. 13-15 [i]And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean;[/i] [b]but now are they holy.[/b]

Paul is calling an unbeliever holy. Now if that doesn’t blow what you consider to be holy out of the water, nothing will!

:) :) There will be those of you who will murmur against this but that is ok. I didn't say it, Paul did. Take it up with him when you see him next!!

God bless you all in your walk with the Goodman of the house!!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/11/7 8:14Profile
INGRACE
Member



Joined: 2009/11/6
Posts: 29
Jackson,AL.

 Re:

I appreciate the responses on this thread.
It's a shame that extra-biblical teachings that have put yokes on bondage on sincere people's necks,have scared many off from seeking to live a life of True Holiness unto The Lord.

We can life a sanctified lifestyle without being nuts and flakes.


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Scott Hutchinson

 2009/11/7 22:26Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:


I love and long for holiness, because Jesus is Holy, God is Holy and the Spirit is Holy and heaven is a holy place.

"Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God." Can one make oneself pure by obeying the moral law, never. I have struggled and struggled in vain to make myself right before God and i have always failed.Can i cleanse myself, can i purify my heart? I can't.Law reveals my sin and Christ shows the way of salvation from sin.He is an ever present Saviour from daily sin. Not my own efforts, they are not acceptable to God.

Its not about Christ and me, its about Christ only. Christ is all sufficient for my need of daily sanctification.



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Redi

 2009/11/8 1:01Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re: The Difference Between Holiness and Legalism ?

Holiness becomes you...

God truly wants the repentance of man, for man to make a volitional choice for Him...to openly repent before Him and to follow Him, to Call upon Him...

He wants good works towards Him based on a loving personal relationship from the heart, and not on good works based on a reliance of oneself… or in ones' ability to live holy by following a given set of rules – and yes there is a difference.

Yes, there are moral rules and guidelines to follow and understand concerning holiness, but they are to instruct me in the ways of righteousness and holiness as I seek Him inwardly, and personally ...and they teach me of the nature of Jesus.

The scriptures give me an understanding of the nature of Him who has called me out of this world to be His son, to a new life in Him which set apart, which is hidden in Christ Jesus - the Holy Spirit bears witness to this truth.

His good works in me (holiness) comes, not based on my own understanding of what true holiness is, but rather based on the inner workings of the Holy Spirit in my heart since I accepted Him, and it is in my yielding to Him in all things in obedience, and not on my adherence to or on reliance of myself to seek His favour by doing good works (what I perceive as holiness). It's not what I can do, it's what He does does through me.

Because I love Him in the very pit of my soul, and am truly born of Him, I will seek out those things that always please Him, I will hate the things that He hates, and I will love the things that He loves...if only that I may have just one moment, just one moment in time that I may truly glorify Him in this earthly body...and this I will do as His Holy Spirit who is within me permits, and teaches me all things.

Does this mean that I will never make a mistake and never sin again? ...no it does not. I hope that I never sin again, but if I do, I know I have an advocate with the Father who is Jesus Christ the righteous. I know that if I acknowledge my sins before God, that He is faithful and just to forgive me and to cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness. And I dare say to anyone that would say that I need to have works in order to be saved and forgiven, that nothing but the precious blood of the Lamb can erase sins.

The bible teaches me that: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:15

Hence and therefore my salvation is not based upon me believing that my good works toward Him (personal holiness) will save me (or even merit me any favor at all), but rather on a TOTAL reliance and surrender of my life to Him, and upon a reliance on Him for my holiness and righteousness, that He who has begun a good work in me will complete it until the very day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6

I just need only to yield to Him, I just need only to yield to Him and say yes Lord Jesus, yes Lord...have your way in me and be glorified in me, let me be obedient to you through your Holy Spirit.

So then holiness is about relationship with God.

Be zealous for God in all things, and let your heart burn in love for Him...with a holy fervor in love. I have found when I apply this oil to my life that I find myself being very much in Love with the Author of my being, and because of that, how can I not love my brother when I see God in him...when it is God that I am in love with. 1 John 4:20 So even if my brother differs from me in understanding, I still love God in him...and will endeavor to treat him with respect as one who has my Father's image.


Love comes from the Holy Spirit...and when this Oil Flows, my lamp is always full of oil at ALL times, night or day and at any hour. And if a person does this, they will not be numbered among the foolish virgins who did not keep oil in their lamps.


So to keep my lamp full, I will ask God to give me the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) so that I will always stay in love with God, full of faith, good works, holiness and of the Holy Spirit, and endeavor to keep the unity of the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Holy Spirit come, in brightness of your coming, and in truth. Fill our lamps with oil, so that we can see in the dark. Break the bonds of sin in us your children, and let us see with perfect light, with the oil that you have given us in our lamps.


Let my heart love you in the depths and to the core of my being, to core of who I am...forever and ever. Amen. Father, take not your Holy Spirit from me and forgive me for my trespasses, and let me love you with perfect love in my soul, and let me show this love in everything that I do.


Let my life be seasoned with salt, and let the sweet smelling savor of my Lord Jesus be perfected within me, till I come into the image of my Lord whom I love. My heart is tender and contrite before Him...melted within me, by the holy fire of God's love, as wax before the Flame. Oh how I love and extol the living God! Oh how pleased I am with Him! With deepest humility, I want to state that I am grateful that the Lord has saved me, and washed me from my sins, and that my name is written down in heaven!


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David

 2009/11/8 2:32Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re:

What a beautiful post Earendel.

It is all about Christ and the blessedness of all that He is.

Thank you, and God bless you.

 2009/11/8 3:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
His good works in me (holiness)

I enjoyed reading your post brother, but perhaps a clearer explanation on this quote is in in order.

What is good works to you? Define good works if you don't mind.

The reason why I ask these questions is that you've linked "good works" with holiness.

Is it good works that makes a man holy?

The Buddist Monks live by a strict moral code and if one were to look into their lives we would have to conclude that these people are holy, IF the definition of holiness is by good works.

I think adherence to a moral code is simply separation. But holiness is something else.

God says, "Be ye holy as I am holy".

God called sinning Israel a holy nation, peculiar, set apart. And they were anointed as He said in another place, "touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm".

Someone stated earlier that holiness is a state of being. I am beginning to believe that. God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.

Something to consider. :-(

 2009/11/8 10:03
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Well said Earendel.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/8 10:26Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Someone stated earlier that holiness is a state of being. I am beginning to believe that. God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.



I don't have the reference off hand, but I believe it Leviticus there is a verse that says, "I am the Lord that sanctifies you...." Being "sanctified" or "set apart" is altogether the issue of holiness. And this is clearly the work of God upon us. Yes, the Levites had a role to play in that holiness as they carried out their tasks as priests. But the tasks they carried out as priests was a mere demonstration of the sanctifying work of God upon them. God is the one who "makes" us holy. He sets us apart, and makes us different. He makes us "other" than what we are, and in doing that distinguishes us from the rest of the race of Adam, and all of fallen humanity.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/8 10:30Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Another comparison I would like to make, and have used this when teaching in the pass. If we measure holiness in terms of a yardstick, as many are prone to do (i.e. dresses a certain length, and other issues of performance), then we run into a major problem. God is holy. But if we define holiness in terms of the yardstick, we run into a problem because a yard stick is only the length of a yard. God is much bigger than the yard stick, and cannot be measured.

Therefore, holiness is not to be defined by the yardstick, but must be defined by God, who is immeasurable. Any understanding of holiness that does not ground itself in who God "is," but instead talks about adherence to rules and regulations, is nothing short of error. You cannot measure God who is holy, therefore, how can we be measured by such things if we are holy?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/11/8 10:34Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.




Correct, it is God in us (by His Holy Spirit) that makes us holy (set apart), and He leads us in His ways.

Please consider this:

Jesus gives us a good example in [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010:30-37&version=NASB]Luke 10:30-37[/url]

Those who are born of the Spirit will do the works inspired by the Spirit, we just need to follow His lead. :-)


_________________
David

 2009/11/8 12:17Profile





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