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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

ccrider wrote:
"Amen. Provision seems to be a general statement here. Although the obvious presents itself, providing protection I think can also be applied. But I also say that the battle for protection isn't just in our physical capacity... not every man in every household can walk, run, or move swiftly.... it is in the prayer closet. I had surgery a couple of years ago that left me medicated and incapacititated... my protection was rendered useless. So my trust and strength was in God's faithfulness to provide what I clearly couldn't. As much as food, drink, and shelter are all noble things in provision... a prayerless man in the household does his whole family a disservice in his duty of provision." ccrider

I for one certainly hope the quotes concerning prayer while watching someone having their way with the family was not directed towards this. If so, I would like to vomit at the accusation.

My point was that I had limited ability to protect my family and prayed for protection for them BEFORE I even went in. Come on now. I don't care who you are, anyone who has a family will step in and protect from an intruder no matter what the physical circumstance. My simple question is this... as head of the household, men, is it necessary to pray for the protection of your family? I'm not around my daughter when she is in school.... I'm limited in my capacity to protect her. As one who has investigated heanous crimes against children, I attest to the fact that protection is needed. But I also know that many of those crimes were commited outside of the father's capacity to protect. Period. I've had enough of the blow hards that can't seem to understand their limitations for protection and am equally tired of those who want to use scripture to tie one's hand behind their backs and make people feel that physical protection of those, such as family, or a situation where physical protection is needed isn't the Christian way. I won't be so bold as to say that either aren't people of God or that they should rot. If I want to get personal, it will have to be for something a little less ridiculous than all this.




Ccrider,

The thing that Krispy said at the beginning of his post is what I was referring to the most.

The "if case scenarios" is what I don't like either because no one really knows until you actually experience it.

But I am with you concerning spiritual weapons of prayer and the name of Jesus Christ our Lord who never leaves us. Putting on the whole armor of God with the sword of the Spirit.

My preparation is in God and my weapons are mighty through God and I don't carry around carnal weapons to even use for protection. I don't have to worry about a carnal weapon misfiring or if I use it right or if it really does the job. My trust is in the Lord and greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.

Blessings to all!

 2009/10/14 13:02Profile









 Re:

No Leo, the trouble seems to be that generalizations are being made about certain theologies concerning protection that I'm not a part of, or, see much of on this thread. I would like to know where El Harris and Krispy are getting their general information. Who is saying what Krispy and El Harris have specifically said as 'praying while someone has their way with one's family'. That's a serious accusation to make if you're speaking for other's whether in generalities or specifics. The question is what information is on this thread for these accusations to be made?? Who said it?? Who's even implying it? They deserve to know so they can either defend it or clear the air. Not to mention the fact that these 'hypothetical people' (as much as hypotheticals have been denounced) have been called effeminant, not of God, and should rot in jail. If someone has said this or has taken this stand in general, and defended it, then I stand corrected and apologize. But if not, it makes no sense to make such statements and think that you are Godly as you accuse others as not being so.

Who here is saying that they would simply pray while their family was being molested by another?? Speak up because your accusers are here.

 2009/10/14 13:03









 Re:

rbanks... Your sincerity in all you say and do is through God. You are an example to me and many here. Knowing you and what we've discussed in the past, you are well thought out in your intentions and deserve the benefit of any doubt I may have with your post. Thanks for your response though. I'm again blessed by your humble demeanor in the face of more theological animosity.

 2009/10/14 13:11
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Sister Ginny,

Quote:
I have not been following this threads closely but as I perceive it folks are wondering what would they do if their family is being attacked.

All I can say is that for our own church people is the males would do whatever they can but shooting to kill is not one of the options. Seems to me this point is too many times overlooked, as though shooting to kill is the only option one can use to protect/defend himself against harmful behaviors.


Yes, this was the original question asked by the person who created this thread. There is a difference between [i]self-defense[/i] and risking life and limb trying to defend someone else from an unmerited or unwarranted attack.

I agree with what you are saying about resisting without an attempt to kill. I think that this is seldom the motivation in such cases. I've never heard of a person (let alone a believer) who wants to shoot to kill someone during an attempt to protect their family (or someone else). Rather, they simply attempt to disarm the person or thwart off the attack while in the attempt to protect others.

I also agree that this somehow gets lost in these sort of discussions. It seems that some have attempted to paint [u]any[/u] sort of resistance for the purpose of defending a family or the weak as a characteristic of bloodthirsty men. There is a preeminent difference in regard to motive.

In order to be just a little more clear, I don't even own a gun (someone quizzed me in this regard in a PM).

As far as this being an entirely "hypothetical" scenario: I have never had to rely on any sort of physical force to thwart off an attacker. However, as a teenager, I was in a situation where an elderly woman in the Church that I attended was confronted by a middle aged man. This man was a homeless veteran who had been permitted to sleep in one of the Church buildings for a while. The man had outlasted his invitation and was doing some bad things on the property. He was unarmed, but he was very strong and highly agitated with this lady. He became so aggressive that it appeared like he was about to hit her. By instinct, I jumped between the man and this elderly lady. I was going to make sure that he wasn't going to harm her. He did push me, but I was able to allow the elderly woman to walk away. He looked like he was about to hit me, but I did my best to make peace with this man. While he was still angry, he didn't hit me. He knew that the police would probably be on their way, so he gathered his belongings and left.

I do know a believing family where the young son was forced to shoot an intruder who had tied him and his scantily clothed mother to a chair. The attacker had broken into the home, attacked the woman and tied both the mother and the little boy loosely and in the room that contained the hunting locker. The man was wielding a machete knife and had a gun in the back of his pants.

After he tied them up, he went downstairs to steal the belongings. This woman and boy were able to untie themselves. The mom tried to open the gun locker, but she didn't know the combination. After a while, the intruder tried to come back into their room. The mother was trying to block the door from opening my sitting on the ground trying to keep the door shut as the man continually tried to kick it in. During one of the attempts, the boy saw that the man had his gun in hand. They screamed to the man to take what he wanted and to leave, but he refused. He continued his attempt to kick in the door. Finally, the 10 yr old boy miraculously opened the gun locker (even though he didn't know the combination either), picked up a gun and shot through the door. Sadly for the intruder, the shot struck him in the head and killed him instantly.

While these might be hypothetical scenarios, they are currently less "hypothetical" than being persecuted to the point of becoming a martyr for the name of Jesus. Further, there seems to be a variety of opinions regarding the scope of interpretation of "turning the other cheek." Some see it as an outright prohibition of resistance in every scenario, while others see it limited to either [i]self[/i] defense and others see it limited to a particular concept regarding the persecution for faith. The same passage tells us to "give to everyone who asks." Yet do we do this in EVERY situation? Do we give to Jehovah's Witnesses who knock on our doors asking for donations in exchange for a Watchtower magazine? Do we give to every person who stands outside of the Walmart asking for donations (including Muslims collecting for their causes)? Do we give to others when our families are in need?

Is it possible that there are certain precepts that supersede others? Are we obligated to take care of the needs of our families BEFORE we are obligated to "give to everyone who asks?" Perhaps this same sort of thing should be considered in this issue?


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/14 13:16Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
is it necessary to pray for the protection of your family? I'm not around my daughter when she is in school.... I'm limited in my capacity to protect her.



Absolutely, unequivocally, YES! There is no other way one can can live in faith. And when one can learn to trust wholly in God for your own protection as well as the rest of the family, you will experience a liberating freedom from fear. Fear cripples, incapacitates a person, always.

A testimony: I am a short woman, less then 5' tall. When I was a young woman I weighed less then 100 pounds (unfortunately it is more now :-( ). Any man could easily have taken advantage of me simply because of my size and gender. I lacked brute strength to defend myself against anything large - I want to say anything larger then a fire ant, but that would not be entirely true. So, I checked out my options and knew my sole protection for my physical well-being rests totally with God. No one, absolutely no one can provide me with adequate protection. Hey, not even dad could! How else how can you understand me falling off of a hay wagon and getting run over by it with him driving the tractor pulling this wagon?

Many years later I was driving through the seedy part of Saginaw, MI in the wee hours of the morning. Streets were well lit, and deserted but it was a very dangerous part of town. We got to our motel and there were people milling around. I was there alone with my son and granddaughter. I felt some fear, but I prayed earnestly for God's protection. So, it has been: when I experience any sense of fear, I pray earnestly for the Lord protection. I also know that if harm were to come my way, it will not take God by surprise but will happen with Him looking on and providing me with the grace to deal with it.

Trusting the LORD delivers one from paranoia and fear. Fear puts one is severe bondage. Trust is liberating. Putting trust to work is faith. This is where I want to live each and everyday and it requires an act of the will to exercise trust and faith.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/10/14 13:18Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Thanks Ccrider for those undeserved gracious words!

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:


Trusting the LORD delivers one from paranoia and fear. Fear puts one is severe bondage. Trust is liberating. Putting trust to work is faith. This is where I want to live each and everyday and it requires an act of the will to exercise trust and faith.

Blessings,
ginnyrose



I agree!

Count me in this one sister. This is my desire also. Faith in God to override all fear of not being able to trust Him completely.

I got to go for now. Blessings to all!

 2009/10/14 13:30Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings ginnyrose

You wrote:Trusting the LORD delivers one from paranoia and fear. Fear puts one is severe bondage. Trust is liberating. Putting trust to work is faith. This is where I want to live each and everyday and it requires an act of the will to exercise trust and faith.
__

I wanted to respond to this.I have been reading these threads for the past few weeks and I will admit that I am beginning to stumble because of them. In all honesty I have started having nightmares and am feeling fearful over thoughts of "what if" scenarios. Some old childhood memories have come up and I find myself struggling.

When I was four years old, my older brother did things to me that were inappropriate.(bad things don't always happen from strangers) I was however terrified by what had happened, I was confused and became very fearful. Needless to say the ramifications of that event have had a lasting affect on me. Fear in many ways was a constant companion in my life. When I was ten years old we lived in a small house outside of town, my parents worked a graveyard shift that was an hour and half drive away from our home. At night my two sisters and younger brother were left at home to ourselves for five nights a week. One evening I was in my room playing with my dolls when I noticed someone watching me through my bedroom window, I ran to tell my parents but by the time by dad checked things out, whoever was there had left. I remember begging my dad to not go to work that night. I was so afraid. He was convinced that it must have been my imagination and we needed the money so off to work they went. I did not sleep much that night. Two days later my older sister was changing in our room and she thought she had seen someone watching her through the window. Again my dad said it was probably just our imagination but just in case he would have the sheriffs office drive by and check on us at night. Several weeks passed and nothing more happened so it was decided that it must have been our imagination. It was the end of summer and my parents were getting ready for work, later that night my sisters and brother all went to bed early, school was starting and we had to get back into our routine. I remember waking up as my sister was shaking me and telling me to get out of bed. She had heard noises and was sure someone was trying to get into the house. She woke my brother and sister up and called the sheriff office. We turned on all the lights and began making as much noise as we could, yelling and screaming stuff. It wasn't long before the police arrived and found out that there had been an attempted break in to our house. Both my parents window screen and the one to my bedroom had been ripped out and the window sill showed sign of tampering. This time since it had rained that day there were foot prints that clearly showed someone had been there. It turned out that the man living just a short ways behind us was a convicted child molester out on parole. Again I was terrified over what happened. I hated being home with out my parents there. I hated being home alone even more. I began praying every night "please God watch over us and protect us. Please don't let anybody hurt us." I would pray that every night for years even well into my adult years. That fear of the "what if" was so strong that for a very long time it controlled me. I guess in some ways it still must be there lingering with me because in all honesty reading over these threads and thinking about what could happen, I found myself waking up from the worst dream and praying that prayer again.

I just wanted to say that I respect many of you who have shared their heart here on this matter from both sides of this issue. Considering my past history I am not sure that I know how I would react if someone came into my home today. Fear is a very strong motivator, but I don't want to let fear rule me any longer. For me I just really want to trust in the Lord that no matter what comes He is there with me and will help me through. These kinds of topics can be a real stumbling block for many so I pray that each one of us will seek Father before they contribute so that He might be glorified in all that we do and write. Thank you Ginnyrose for reminding me that it is vital that we keep our focus on the Lord and have faith and trust in Him.

God Bless
maryjane

 2009/10/14 13:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Orthodox it would seem from all your posts that you haven’t experience the baptism in the Holy Ghost but if you ever got a powerful infilling you would write differently.



You're out of line. Your presumption is blinding you to reason. Or maybe you just have way too much time on your hands.

I thank God for the wonderful experiences of being filled with His precious Spirit.

I remember one time it was as though my body was a fire hose and living water was shooting from my waist up out of my mouth. It was AWESOME! It was like "AAAHHHHHHH....JEEEESSSSUUUUSSS!! God can do that to me any day of the week any second of the day.

So I'm not really sure what you are getting at?

I sure do love the Lord with all of my heart and am thankful for the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

 2009/10/14 14:04
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

MJ , your testimony made me remember these sermons, at one time they spoke much to me.

[url=http://media.sermonindex.net/11/SID11549.mp3]Pray for protection by Keith Daniel[/url]

this sermon just in the first 15 minutes he shares a testimony about an attack, not on his family but on himself, thought those who might fear such as MJ shared, i thought it could be encouraging.

[url=http://media.sermonindex.net/4/SID4387.mp3]if you faced death right now by keith daniel[/url]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/14 14:04Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Please show me one incident in the bible after pentecost that any of the apostles used a carnal sword against any other person.



Please show me one incident in the Bible after Pentecost where a child was maliciously assaulted in front of it's father.

You treat the Scriptures as though we are going to explicitly see every tiny detail of life 1) portrayed, 2) explained clearly, and 3) taught about directly

 2009/10/14 14:07





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