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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : 7 Arguments Atheists Can't Use by Eli Brayley

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 Re:

That was a great link anonymous777. Thanks for posting it!

 2011/5/14 0:55
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

ChrisJD, there is no shortage of discourse upon Evolution and Creationism, and I am loath to attempt an entire recapitulation of the entire debate. Suffice that I am not entirely unaware thereof, and I know of no serious attack upon Evolution, and no credible support for Creationism. I leave it to you where you care to take this.

Veronica226, the fossil evidence, however extensive, is still limited in its comprehensiveness. But all life forms are transitional. And every time a transitional form between any two forms is discovered, the Creationists demand two more transitional forms in the smaller remaining gaps, and so on. And I think that you can corroborate that with your own research. Mutations are random, but only sometimes turn out to be somehow beneficial. Darwin spoke of survival of the fitter. This is often misquoted as "survival of the fittest." There is a book out entitled 'Survival of the Sickest' It turns out for example, that Sickle Cell Anemia, protects from the Black Plague. DNA on the spiral helix, must be symmetrical. In the human animal, there are half missing damaged genes associated with the jaw muscle, rendering our bite so feeble in comparison to other animals. But it is those enfeebled muscles over the skull, that allow our heads to grow so as to accommodate our brains. People born with healthy jaw muscles have skulls as small as Chimps. They are known as pinheads. Would God the Creator be so perverse? And cumulative changes over time, do increase in complexity, and not just in biological evolution.

And yes, you do feed your cat without complete certainty that the cat food might be tainted. There is no paralysis except from the demand for certainty. And other biblical writers referred to the four corners of the Earth. That is why the globe model of the Earth was deemed heresy. In any case, sailors continued to set forth into the unknown. Progress is a benefit of doubt and faliblism.

anonymous777, if I vented feeling, it is because that seemed to be the discourse you where opening. But you seem actually blind to feelings that don't fit your dogma. And don't be sorry I supported and helped a dear friend to endure Pro-Life headgames and go through with the abortion she needed, I'm not and neither was she. As for whatever is factual, as I have already stated, I do not even use that word since realizing that I do not know what it means. To any extent that I am confident in any point of Ontology, I believe my reasons to be rational, not emotional. And I do not resort to torture for rational persuasion, unless of course you really do find my writing style that painful! Still, I might also experience hallucinations under that degree of pressure as endured by Wurmbrand. But so what? And on an historical note, Christians where throwing one another to the Lions soon enough. Christians did not shut down the Coliseum. Eventually, it simply lost its funding as the Roman Empire crumbled.

 2011/5/14 1:15Profile









 Re:

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for coming out of the bush a little bit. Actually, I am not blind to feelings. I recognize and sympathize with those that hurt, no matter who they are or what they believe in. And so does my God. I was not offended in the least that you vented feeling. I did however forget to mention that Richard Wurmbrand was an Atheist before he became a follower of Christ. Quite an interesting story. He grew up all around Atheists as this is what Communism taught.

Here is an excerpt of his book, Tortured for Christ, the first chapter.

An atheist finds Christ

I was orphaned from the first years of life. Being brought up in a family in which no religion was recognised, I received no religious education as a child. as the result of a bitter childhood, which included knowing poverty in the difficult years of World War 1, at age fourteen I was as convinced an atheist as the communists are today. I had read atheistic books, and it was not just that I did not believe in God or Christ - I hated these notions, considering them harmful for the mind. So I grew up in bitterness towards religion.

But as I understood afterwards, I had the grace to be one of the chosen of God for reasons that I don't understand. These reasons had nothing to do with my character, because my character was very bad.

Although I was an atheist, something unreasonable always attracted me to churches. I found it difficult to pass a church without entering it. However, I never understood what was happening in these churches. I listened to the sermons, but they didn't appeal to my heart. I had an image of God as a master whom I should have to obey. I hated this wrong image of God that I had in my mind, but I would have liked very much to know that a loving heart existed somewhere in the centre of this universe. Since I had known few of the joys of childhood and youth, I longed that there should be a loving heart beating for me, too.

I convinced myself that there was no God, but I was sad that such a God of love did not exist. Once, in my inner spiritual conflict, I entered a Catholic church. I saw people kneeling and saying something. I thought, I will kneel with them so that I can hear what they say and repeat the prayers to see if something happens. They said a prayer to the holy virgin, 'Hail Mary, full of grace'. I repeated the words after them again and again; I looked at the statue of the virgin Mary, but nothing happened. I was very sad about it.

One day, being a very convinced atheist, I prayed to God. My prayer was something like this: 'God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in you; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.' I was an atheist, but atheism did not give peace to my heart.

All the best,
A777

 2011/5/14 1:36
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Aaron wrote:

Quote:
And don't be sorry I supported and helped a dear friend to endure Pro-Life headgames and go through with the abortion she needed, I'm not and neither was she.



I am confused. Why do you inject your support for abortion -did someone else introduce this subject but I just missed it? What relevance does it have with the discussion at hand?

For whatever it is worth not all are so ambivalent about abortion as you. We have here on the forum a brother who had a couple children aborted who grieves deeply about what he had done when he was away from God. You may work to justify the killing of this child, but if you are fortunate the day will come when you will suffer extreme emotional pain over your callousness, your blindness.

I feel so sorry for the female you supported in her decision to abort. Stats inform us that she will eventually learn to hate you, distrust you for your role in allowing this to happen. It is called post-abortion syndrome. I have seen too many of these victims first hand and witnessed their tears.

Your posts are proving more that you have to deny the reality of God in order to stifle the convicting of the Holy Spirit in your life.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/5/14 1:54Profile
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

anonymous777, why can't you understand how utterly irrelevant I find such accounts as that of Wurmbrand's conversion, and why so? What have I failed to explain on that score, and how so? Again: Statements are speaker independent.

 2011/5/14 1:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Your posts are proving more that you have to deny the reality of God in order to stifle the convicting of the Holy Spirit in your life.



Yep.

Atheism is simply a cover for man to live as the basest of animals, making appeals to "intellect" so-called in a rabid effort to deny all appeals to conscience.

Sooner or later it always comes out....


OJ

 2011/5/14 10:45









 Re:

Ginny,

I think Aaron brought it up as "shock treatment". But the Lord is not shocked by anything and has seen it all.

His blood covers all our transgressions, too. If only, we come to Him.

And God is not impressed with all of our reasonings and self-justifications, either. He has seen it all and heard it all.

There is no pressure or onus on us to "prove the existence of God". God has already done that in a multitude of ways. We just declare what is already a fact. It's not for us to produce results in other's lives, but rather, just to be faithful.

Aaron,

I know there are some things in your life that are NOT irrelevant. You have already shared a little. I don't have to know what other things are relevant in your life. There is Someone that does know. And He knows you inside and out. You can spend your whole life running and eventually it will be in a circle where you come face to face with the One that you ultimately have to answer to. Everything begins and ends with God and that is why we end up running to Him, either on our own, or just because we came to the end of our race (life). The end of our "run", ends with Him. You have no control over that.

We have all heard many things that you postulate before but the reality is you cannot checkmate God, or cause Him to cease to exist. We can only postpone our meeting with Him for so long.

The thing is, that He only wants to save you from yourself.

You don't have to believe that, but it is a FACT, nonetheless.

Thanks for listening to my irrelevant ramblings, too. :-)

A777

 2011/5/14 11:15
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

Old_Joe, we are now just gainsaying. anonymous777, I thought that you all place such stock in personal anecdotes and experiences, so I tried to shift from purely abstract debate upon the existence of God, to an attempt to ask you to relate to my deep objections to the absurdities of Fundamentalism that inspire ongoing atrocity. Indeed, if there is a God, then He understands. But don't seem to be getting through to you on a serious matter of loony Theology, oppressive public policy and its dangerous personal impact.

 2011/5/14 11:38Profile









 Re:

Gainsaying, I think not. For all your attempts at presenting proper prose, you sure blew it when it got closer to home. You showed who you really were in your baseness of speech. These are the things that not only lurk in, but spew forth from, those with seared conscience.


OJ

 2011/5/14 11:50
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

Ad Hominem projection much?

 2011/5/14 11:58Profile





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