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 Re:

Jesus-is God writes....

"This surely is a NT vs OT discussion."

I believe that you are correct. I have found that there is a fundamental lack of understanding as to the nature of the New Covenant as it relates to the OC. If you were to ask many Christians if they are under the Law, withour hesitation they would say yes...........Frank


 2009/10/4 17:21









 Re:

Quote: Chris wrote - "There are plenty of "non-resistant" men who refrain from physical force, yet are still quick to use their words as weapons."

Amen. Started with our non-resistant Savior who used His Words as a sword, calling Herod a "fox" and you know what He had to say to Pharisees.

And our non-resistant Paul - his words and name calling cut like a sword of the Spirit.



 2009/10/4 17:21









 Re:

Quote:

appolus wrote:
Jesus-is God writes....

"This surely is a NT vs OT discussion."

I believe that you are correct. I have found that there is a fundamental lack of understanding as to the nature of the New Covenant as it relates to the OC. If you were to ask many Christians if they are under the Law, withour hesitation they would say yes...........Frank




A babe in Christ would know this Frank.

How many times did Jesus say - "It is written - but I say ....."


 2009/10/4 17:23
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi Jesus-is-God,

Quote:
Chris, you tend to post in rabbit trails and again - the "twisting of Scripture" is your comparison to Christ's Return with His Armies and the wars waged on earth by men autonomously.

Can you not see the difference?

Okay...I disagree with both your assessment and your accusation. I am not building "rabbit" trails and I don't believe that I am "twisting the Scripture."
Quote:
The rest of your post is merely a repeat and those points have been covered already.

No, it is not. If you read my post, I introduced thoughts that weren't found in any of my other posts...or anyone else's that I have read. Regardless, I haven't seen any plausible refutation of any of the points or Scriptural questions that I mentioned from the "non-resistance
Quote:

If the Government can make room for Religious Exemptions for these many years - I'm wondering why there are so many here that find the need to "fight" those who are of that religious persuasion.

That's where the "mouth fights" are totally unnecesary.

It's like going to an Amish Settlement and fighting with them Chris.

It isn't that anyone is saying that you or anyone else of the "non-resistant" persuasion don't have the right to opt out of such service. I totally respect and recognize that this is a result of those beliefs as they are interpreted from the Word of God. Yet, at the same time, are the "non-resistant" brethren free to simply share their beliefs as if they are beyond dispute...or the only ones that matter? One brother literally wrote that anyone who disagrees with the teaching of "non-resistant" is twisting the Scriptures and given to "damnable heresy." What an insolent and presumptuous thing to say! This is my central concern within this topic. You might think that we are "fighting" your position -- but we are "resisting" the view as it is presented as if there can be no other thoughts on the matter than what has already been presented by the "non-resistant" brethren. Of course, the same thing can be said of the "non-resistant" brethren who are using "mouth fights" to resist those with whom they disagree.

As for the topic: If any sort of resistance is strictly forbidden by God, then why is it not clearly pointed out in the Word? Maybe you think that it is "clear" -- but many of us who have studied it and prayed about it simply disagree. Likewise, why does the Word of God consider those physical governments and authorities (outside of the Body of Christ) who implement such things as "[i]instruments of God for righteousness[/i]?"

The thing that I have said but has, as far as I can tell, been ignored is that many of us see a strong difference between personal resistance when persecuted for the Gospel...and those who would serve in the military or police department, or those who would defend the weak from attack or those who would defend their families. Like I said before, I haven't seen any verses that have been presented that I feel address these forms of "resistance." Yet, when we voice this, we are accused of "twisting the Scriptures" or embracing "damnable heresies" implemented by "false Christianity." No one WANTS to resort to any form of physical force; rather, we see that some limited forms of physical force might be needed (and non-prohibited) or even a duty by those who belong to the family of God. We are not "heretics," nor are we "twisting the Scriptures" in the desire to accomplish such an end. We are simply following Christ through the Word with a clear conscience.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/4 17:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
Quote:

Old_Joe wrote:
Jesus-is-God

How do you reconcile the OT command of killing of homosexuals with the ALSO OT command of "thou shalt not kill"?


Still waiting for an answer....




As with any Old Covenant's dealing with "sin in the Camp" - when The Messiah came - HE took charge of how to deal with "sin in the camp".

It's as easy as that. 'The Beatitudes', Paul's writings, etc. - it's as easy as reading anything Jesus said that we have recorded in our N.T.s.



Not at all, Christ's blood atoned for David's sin as well as mine.

In the OT we have two direct and opposite commands. 'Though shalt not kill' and 'thou shalt kill'. To break either one is sin, so how then can you put sin out of the camp with sin?

 2009/10/4 17:26









 Re:

Quote:

appolus wrote:
HI Joe,

I think that if you actually read the piece I posted by Wycliffe you would see that this man , while teaching non-resitance , was saying that one must only go to war if commanded by God. And so, if this country or any other were a theocracy, and the ruler stood up and pronounced that God spoke to him and commanded him to go to war then you would go to war.

........Frank



So then you believe there is a time for war?

 2009/10/4 17:31









 Re: Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Alrighty Chris, we'll do the same to any Amish person who comes here with their strong convictions - though even to this day, this Government accepts their convictions.

________________________________________________

Old-Joe said: "In the OT we have two direct and opposite commands. 'Though shalt not kill' and 'thou shalt kill'.

To break either one is sin, so how then can you put sin out of the camp with sin?"


The point again Joe is that Jesus & His Apostle's Epistles set the rules and they're extremely clear in the N.T..
The answer to this not difficult to find.


 2009/10/4 17:36









 Re:

Quote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
The thing that I have said but has, as far as I can tell, been ignored is that many of us see a strong difference between personal resistance when persecuted for the Gospel...and those who would serve in the military or police department, or those who would defend the weak from attack or those who would defend their families. Like I said before, I haven't seen any verses that have been presented that I feel address these forms of "resistance."



Exactly!

That is because there aren't any.

 2009/10/4 17:36









 Re:

Quote:

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
Alrighty Chris, we'll do the same to any Amish person who comes here with their strong convictions - though even to this day, this Government accepts their convictions.

________________________________________________

Old-Joe said: "In the OT we have two direct and opposite commands. 'Though shalt not kill' and 'thou shalt kill'.

To break either one is sin, so how then can you put sin out of the camp with sin?"


The point again Joe is that Jesus & His Apostle's Epistles set the rules and they're extremely clear in the N.T..
The answer to this not difficult to find.





Then spell it out for us simpletons!

 2009/10/4 17:38









 Re:

Brother, have you not read the N.T.?

I don't consider you a simpleton!

No where in the NT are we told to "kill" people who are homosexual or any other sort of sinners that are listed in those same verses - ie. adulterers, thiefs, and so forth.

You know that Joe - that's why I should not have to re-post almost the entire NT on this thread.

Jesus said - "It is written, an eye for an eye - but I say ....................."


We ALL should know at least the NT by now.



 2009/10/4 17:44





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