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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Will You Kill or Be Killed?

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Jesus-is-God,

Quote:

The "war" that Christ comes down for with His Armies are GOD initiated and carried out so How can you compare that to the wars we are seeing in these "last days".


I didn't say otherwise. What I was saying is that there are moments when war is justifiable for the cause of righteousness. It will be a just and righteous war. Thus, God Himself will NOT be "turning the other cheek" -- even before the day of Judgment or dispersion of everlasting punishment. Yet, the underlying point that I am trying to make is in regard to a matter of righteousness. Is it ever "righteous" to "resist?"

If a child was being attacked by a violent man, would it be a "righteous" thing to resist the attacker? I believe that it is a righteous thing to stand up for the weak or for your family.

In fact, the New Testament Scriptures talk about such this matter. Romans 13 speaks about our responsibility to submit to the authorities of this world. There are plenty of "non-resistant" men who refrain from physical force, yet are still quick to use their words as weapons. How many believers did this over the past eight years in regard to President Bush or President Obama? Damaging and unsubstantiated accusations have been made by men who claim to practice "non-resistance." Yet we are told to refrain from these sort of attacks.

Furthermore, we are told in regard to a physical authority, "[i]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; [b]for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God[/b], a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil[/i]" (Romans 13:4). In other words, such an authority (whether a king, a governor or a local principality [like a policeman]) are "instruments of God for righteousness." I Peter 2:13-14 says, "[i]Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him [b]for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well[/b][/i]."
Quote:
That 'is' twisting Scripture Chris.


I think that this is quite an accusation, brother! Do you see how this type of accusation might appear? It seems like you are saying that I have a belief that I am willing to twist the Scriptures in order to justify. This could not be further from the truth! This is how I see the Scriptures from a clear conscience before God after much prayerful consideration and study.

None of the verse presented by the "non-resistant" brethren have led me to embrace their persuasion in regard to this topic. I read those same verses, embrace them as the Truth that they are, but I fail to see how they are extended to some sort of absolute prohibition of serving in the military or police department, defending the weak or defending one's family.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/4 16:22Profile









 Re:

Jesus-is-God

How do you reconcile the OT command of killing of homosexuals with the ALSO OT command of "thou shalt not kill"?


Still waiting for an answer....

 2009/10/4 16:24









 Re:

Quote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
If a child was being attacked by a violent man, would it be a "righteous" thing to resist the attacker? I believe that it is a righteous thing to stand up for the weak or for your family.

.....
None of the verse presented by the "non-resistant" brethren have led me to embrace their persuasion in regard to this topic. I read those same verses, embrace them as the Truth that they are, but I fail to see how they are extended to some sort of absolute prohibition of serving in the military or police department, defending the weak or defending one's family.



Amen and amen...

 2009/10/4 16:25









 Re:

People here seem to think that because the merchant marines were not firing guns they were less culpable in the deaths attributed by the war. The fact is that even though they were not firing the weapon, they were helping the weapons be fired by providing supplies. They are just as culpable in the war effort as those on the front lines. Choosing non-resistance as a means to do that instead just meant they didn't want to get their own hands dirty with the blood of other men. Nevertheless the dirt remains....

Likewise to all who live under the freedoms bought with that bloodshed. The dirt remains, is charged to you and can't be washed off with morality, that is why you need Christ.

 2009/10/4 16:34









 Re:

BTW
The first gentile convert was Cornelian the Centurion, (a leader of 100 men in the army), and he stayed in his position. Acts 10.

The first gentile convert was a military man....

Interesting....

 2009/10/4 16:56









 Re:

Chris, you tend to post in rabbit trails and again - the "twisting of Scripture" is your comparison to Christ's Return with His Armies and the wars waged on earth by men autonomously.

Can you not see the difference?


The rest of your post is merely a repeat and those points have been covered already.

If the Government can make room for Religious Exemptions for these many years - I'm wondering why there are so many here that find the need to "fight" those who are of that religious persuasion.

That's where the "mouth fights" are totally unnecesary.

It's like going to an Amish Settlement and fighting with them Chris.


 2009/10/4 16:59
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

2 Samuel 22:35 He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

2 Samuel 22: 38 I have pursued mine enemies, and destroyed them; and turned not again until I had consumed them


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/10/4 17:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Old_Joe wrote:
Jesus-is-God

How do you reconcile the OT command of killing of homosexuals with the ALSO OT command of "thou shalt not kill"?


Still waiting for an answer....




As with any Old Covenant's dealing with "sin in the Camp" - when The Messiah came - HE took charge of how to deal with "sin in the camp".

It's as easy as that. 'The Beatitudes', Paul's writings, etc. - it's as easy as reading anything Jesus said that we have recorded in our N.T.s.







 2009/10/4 17:04









 Re:

This surely is a NT vs OT discussion.

Why do we use or discard the OT when it suits our own views?

 2009/10/4 17:08









 Re:

HI Joe,

I think that if you actually read the piece I posted by Wycliffe you would see that this man , while teaching non-resitance , was saying that one must only go to war if commanded by God. And so, if this country or any other were a theocracy, and the ruler stood up and pronounced that God spoke to him and commanded him to go to war then you would go to war. To compare Israel and its wars with the Canaanities with say, the war in Vietnam or any war by any country in the last 2000 years is beyond me. Yet I do accept that this is your view and we have a genuine difference of opinion, which is fine of course.

One can only imagine what Wycliffe suffered for his view in those days. Of course he was not that popular with the religious men of the day, even after he was buried........Frank

 2009/10/4 17:09





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