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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

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Hesavedme
Member



Joined: 2009/8/24
Posts: 1


 Re: CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

Hello Lysa,

I do like to admit that According to Apostle Paul in the book of Corinthians he spoke of two types of christians : the carnal christians and the spiritual minded christians. Now if by BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS you mean carnal christian Offcourse YES! they can LOOSE their salvation and end up in HEll because to be carnally minded is to be dead spiritually. But if by BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS you mean Spirtually Minded ones then i tell you NO! they cant be found in HELL niether can they loose their SALVATION! because they will have their mind renewed on a daily basis and a "ROLLING STONE DOES NOT GATHERED MOSS!"

 2009/8/24 9:59Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Of course. See...if you guys would have never left the church, you wouldn't even be having this discussion.



Catholic, I am guessing this opinion is not shared by all Catholics...at least the ones I know. I have a Catholic friend who complains a lot just like folks do here on this forum! and is troubled by sin - as the scriptures define sin - running unchecked in her local church.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/8/24 10:15Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Catholic, I guess the Thomists and the Molinist disagreement isn't what I thought it was.

 2009/8/24 11:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Catholic, I guess the Thomists and the Molinist disagreement isn't what I thought it was.



I guess not. Molinism has to do with the actions of God based upon His foreknowledge. Not upon man's free will.

If you want out...you can get out. But you're sure going to be fighting against a loving God. Albeit, One who respects your free will.

 2009/8/24 12:50
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
by Hesavedme on 2009/8/24 6:59:13 Hello Lysa, I do like to admit that According to Apostle Paul in the book of Corinthians he spoke of two types of christians : the carnal christians and the spiritual minded christians. Now if by BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS you mean carnal christian Offcourse YES! they can LOOSE their salvation and end up in HEll because to be carnally minded is to be dead spiritually. But if by BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS you mean Spirtually Minded ones then i tell you NO! they cant be found in HELL niether can they loose their SALVATION! because they will have their mind renewed on a daily basis and a "ROLLING STONE DOES NOT GATHERED MOSS!"



Dear int3grity,

I would respond by amplifying on the response by Hesavedme above.

If you ask any Christian if they are born again, almost all of them will say yes. But we know from scripture (Mt 7:21-23) that on the day of judgment, many who claim Jesus as their Lord and Saviour will be disappointed to learn that they will not be allowed into God's kingdom.

The truth is one does not become a born-again Christian by declaring himself to be such. Neither can the declaration of a "religious authority" like a priest, or a pastor, or an evangelist make it so. Only God is qualified to decide the matter. However, he has provided sufficient guidelines in the Bible to help us assess ourselves in this regard.

First, we must make a distinction between a professing Christian and a born-again Christian. A professing Christian is one who has turned towards God and openly acknowledges Jesus as Lord. In a sense one can say that he has faith in God... but the critical question is what kind of faith? This distinction of different levels of faith or belief is explained in the Bible in Mt 13:1-23 (Parable of the Sower) and James 2:14-26 (Faith and Deeds).

A professing Christian can be likened to a new believer who believes in God and his word, yet has not yet imbibed a sufficient understanding of scripture and God's character to experience a life change (being born again). A professing Christian is still a seeker who has not yet reached the end of his journey. A reborn Christian is one who not only believes in God and his word, but also has come to a point of understanding where he is overwhelmed by the greatness of God's love, the majesty of God's holiness, and the sinfulness and unworthiness of his own life. The reborn Christian is so moved by these things that he truly falls in love with God the the way explained by Jesus in Mt 22:36-40 "with all your heart and with all your soul and will all your mind".

I believe it is this "falling in love with God" phase that constitutes true rebirth. Of all human values, virtues, or emotions, it is love that has the power to change lives. It is love that changes one from being a "taker" (self-gratification) to being a "giver" (selflessly gratifying the object of our love). Love is what makes parents die for their children; it is what makes patriots die for their country; it is what made God give up his only son for us; it is what made Jesus die for our redemption; and it is what will make us live or die for Christ. That is why scripture says in 1Co 13:13 that love is greater than faith.

The journey from being a professing Christian to a reborn Christian depends on how well the Holy Spirit is able to lead the believer. It can take an instant, or it may take a lifetime, and sometimes the journey is never completed. As explained in the parable of the sower, if we allow ourselves to be distracted, if we lose interest, and if we fail to become deeply-rooted we could fail to complete the journey --- thus we have a situation where a "born-again" Christian appears to lose his salvation and end up in hell. The truth is he was never born-again, though he claimed to be.

I am of the persuasion that a true born-again Christian --- one who has come to know God intimately, one who has fallen totally in love with God, and whose overriding goal in life is to please God and God alone --- such a one can no longer be lost (Jn 10:29).

Love is so powerful that one would seek to please his or her beloved even in the absence of rewards and even with the threat of punishments. Thus we see how the apostles and many Christians devoted themselves to serving the cause of Christ even though they suffered and died for it.

One way I try to distinguish true born-again Christians from those who have still to reach that point is to ask: Why are you a Christian? Most would answer something like: To gain eternal life; to be blessed; to become righteous before God; to be with fellow believers; to gain guidance; to get to heaven, etc. To paraphrase these responses, they are saying "I am a Christian to get something good for myself" -- still with the attitude of a "taker" but definitely moving along the right path (thank God). But those who have been transformed would answer "I am a Christian because I love God", and if pushed they would admit that they would still be Christians even without the promise of salvation, even without heaven or hell, even without the promise of blessings. These are those who would suffer and die for Christ. These are those of whom the Bible says "the world was not worthy of them". These are the ones who can never fall away --- because they are in love with God.

 2009/8/29 14:22Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

salvation is not "losable" like the remote control for the T.V. is "losable"

Our salvation is apostatable (if that is a word) Just as ones marriage is divorcable.
Note:
The Greek word for divorce is ἀποστάσιον - apostasion = ap-os-tas'-ee-on
Srong's Greek #647
We get the word Apostasy or apostate from this word, but it is also what divorce is.

[b]2Thes 2:3[/b] [color=990000]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the falling away[/color] (Greek: apostasia) [color=990000]first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;[/color]
[b]2Pe 2:1b[/b] [color=990000]even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.[/color]
They were bought with a price (1Corinth 6:20, 1Corinth 7:23) and that price was Christ's blood.
since they were bought, then they are HIS and have eternal life, however, they denied Him and Apostatized - they divorced themselves from Him

However, this doesn't come from a certain amount of sin, but from adopting a bad theology, being deceived:
[b]Gal 1:6[/b] [color=990000]I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel [b]:7[/b] Which is not another...[/color]
When anyone strays from the truth, they stray from Christ.

[b]2 Timothy 2:13[/b] [color=990000]If we believe not, yet he abides faithful: he cannot deny himself.[/color]
If we deny the faith and apostatize, He will deny us (2Tim 2:12).

If we are unbelieving and unfaithful, denying Him, then Christ will remain true to his Word, and we cannot hope to be saved.
It is a denial of his very nature to save those who are unfaithful. He is holy; how can he save one who is unholy?
Nothing would be more unrighteous than for God than to save a man that denies Him, let alone one who purposefully lived habitually in sin.

[b]Hebrew 6:6[/b] [color=990000]and having fallen away[/color] (it is impossible V4) [color=990000]to be renewing them again to repentance, all the while they are crucifying for themselves the Son of God and having publicly disgraced Him.[/color]
This verse implies that this one is still fallen away. No one who is in a fallen state may be renewed; they must repent (get up from the fallen state) in order for them to be renewed.

For, while they are still fallen, they are [color=990000]bringing forth thorns and star thistles, being disqualified and near being curse, whose end is to be burned.[/color] (Hebrew 6:8)

 2009/8/29 14:47Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2004
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I have read some portions of this LONG thread. I think Logic has just made a very good point.

The two camps that often debate this issue are the "Once saved, always saved" camp and the "saved - lost - saved - lost, born again again every time you sin" camp. I really believe both are in a theological ditch so to speak and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yes, I believe it is possible to lose your salvation, and once lost, you will never regain it.

Heb 6:4-6
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I too believe that actions of sin cannot cause one to lose salvation. I will speak facetiously for a moment and say that if that were true, we ought to have an execution squad waiting behind every altar and as soon as someone receives Christ, send them to heaven promptly so they cannot lose their salvation. To me, that is the logical end to saying that actions of sin cause us to lose salvation.

Salvation, to be lost, must be denied. It must be rejected by the person to whom it was given. I think the above verses of Hebrews give some very explicit requirements of a person that can deny their salvation. It is a carefully premeditated act of the will by a person who was spiritually mature.

This being said, if a born again person willingly engages in sinful acts, that person must harden his or her heart against the Holy Spirit to do so. This willful hardening of heart is the first step toward coming to a place of apostasy. It is important that we learn to crucify our flesh and live out of our born again spirits. We are all tempted with sin. Unfortunately, sometimes we give in to a temptation. We need to be quick to repent, but also live with the assurance that we have not "thrown it all away" because of one action of sin.



_________________
Travis

 2009/8/29 16:18Profile





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