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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Should christians tithe?

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whyme
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Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

I've heard others before say we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments. Very Wrong.

Christ confirms the two greatest commandments. The Ten Commandments are summed up in those two.

We cannot be justified by performing the law. The Law of Christ is the law of Love. The Ten Commandments are the most basic expressions of love to God and love to our neighbor. God's law is perfect. It is, including especially the Ten Commandments, a reflection of His character. Christ's commandments in the Sermon on the Mount are actually an amplification and clarification of the Ten Commandments. I hope none would argue that we should not obey the Sermon on the Mount.

 2010/4/19 8:39Profile









 Re:

Jimmy what about what Christ said, not to abolish the law..but to fulfill it in Matthew 5:17?

 2010/4/19 16:30
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Indeed. He did not abolish it. But by fulfilling it, and fulfilling it in us, He divorced it from our lives so that we might ultimately be united to Him, so that instead of living our lives by letters written in stone, we might live according to the newness of the Spirit.


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Jimmy H

 2010/4/19 18:22Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: fulfill the law

We must properly define what it means to fulfill the law. To do this we must see what scripture says about the purpose of the law. If I fulfill the law, I complete it in the sense of accomplishing its purpose.

The purpose of the law was to make sin exceeding sinful, to show us that we were in sin, to stop our mouths and make us guilty before God, to revive and reveal sin in us. Romans 5:20, Romans 7:9-13. It also served as a restraint on sin. Thirdly, and in following directly from the first, it served as a schoolmaster to bring us to the place that we despaired of being able to do it on our own and cried out for a savior to deliver us. Galatians 3:24-25, Romans 7 describes Paul's futile effort to obtain righteousness by keeping the law and his realization of the real purpose of the law.

Christ was the object that the law pointed to. He fulfilled the law much in the same sense that a man fulfills his destiny by doing that for which he was born. To fulfill the law does not mean to KEEP it, rather to accomplish the very purpose for which the law was given. To be the savior that the law made us long for. To abolish the sin that the law so effectively revived in us.

Here are some other verses that are worth studying in their context.

Romans 7:4, Romans 7:25, in fact all of Romans 1-8, Romans 8:2, Romans 10:4, Gal. chapters 2 and 3.

You see, if we are going to say that keeping the law is unnecessary, we must be consistent and include ALL of the law. If we are going to say we must keep one or even ten of the over 600 commandments in the law, then we must be consistent and say that we must keep ALL of the law. If breaking one commandment makes me guilty of breaking ALL of the law, the reverse must also be true.

The point is that Christ was the end and fulfillment of the law. In fulfilling the law He ended it for righteousness, ALL of it. A great portion of the book of Hebrews makes this case, as does a great portion of the book of Romans and virtually all of Galatians, plus other scattered teachings in the New Testament. Paul is very clear that the portion of the law written in stone, the Ten Commandments, was a ministration of death.

He is also very clear in Romans that the law was just and holy. It was a picture, although a very incomplete one, of the holiness of God and the standard of absolute perfection that relationship with God demands. But even that very incomplete standard was impossible for any man to keep, thus its very purpose, to make us despair of self-righteousness and seek a savior.

In Matthew 5 Jesus makes some interesting points. His audience is primarily the common people who were under no deception that they were righteous on their own account, although I am sure some pharisees were in the mix. He said, except your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. This is quite a blow to the common folk as they looked on the pharisees as the really holy ones among them. He then goes on to show that the standard described in the law was only a shadow of the standard that God demands. He sums it up by saying that if you want to enter the kingdom, you must be perfect like God is perfect. Here is the fulfillment of the law showing the people clearly that none can claim self-righteousness. That is the context in which Matthew 5:17 is written.

Righteousness through Christ is the root that causes us to bear the fruit of grace described in Titus 2:11-13. His laws have been written in our hearts. Not the thin shadow of His law that Moses chiseled into stone, or that was delivered to Moses and written down in the wilderness. But the true law of God that Jesus hinted at in Matthew 5.

So, I do not have to keep the ten commandments, just as I do not have to keep any of the rest of the law either. Because I am righteous, the peaceable fruit of righteousness, holiness, will be borne in my life. I like the way one minister put it. If you really understand the grace of God you will live holier on accident that you ever did before on purpose.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/4/19 19:34Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Oh, one more thing that came to my mind. Jesus did not keep the letter of the law (He never broke the spirit of the law). Remember when He and His disciples picked grain for their food on the Sabbath. This was in clear violation of the law. Exodus 16, Nehemiah 13. Remember how greatly this angered the pharisees? And for good reason, they though. Remember His response. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. He understood that the sabbath, like many other things in the law, were shadows or types of things to come. He was the fulfillment of those things. So, He kept the law, while the pharisees did not, all the while being accused of them of not keeping the true spirit of the law.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/4/19 19:40Profile









 Re:

Travis,

isn't that law different from the Law God established? Since the pharisee's made there own oral laws.

I believe the ten commandments are still active and we should follow them, not for salvation or righteousness, Christ is our complete and final atonement. But as a lamp and a guide.

Mike

 2010/4/20 7:05
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Mike: Just a few questions.

I am not saying a Christian will not follow the ten commandments, but it will occur "accidentally" in the natural course of walking in the Spirit. Here are a few questions to consider.

If they are still active and we should follow them, why not the rest of the law? Paul obviously lumps them all into one category, "The Law". Why single out ten of the 660 or so laws?

If they are still active and we should follow them, and if it is not for salvation or righteousness sake, for what then would we follow them? What would be the purpose of keeping the law or a portion thereof? One might say, because I love God and desire to obey Him, but that motivation makes keeping the law superflouous. Why keep the letter of something that I naturally do anyway. The law was not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. Thou shalt not commit murder does not apply to me because in my spirit dwells the love of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.

I know that many have taught that the ten are somehow set apart as seperate, but scripture does not bear it out. I like how Ray Comfort and others use the ten commandments. They use them for their intended purpose, to reveal to the self righteous that they are really sinners.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/4/20 9:03Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

I personally feel that every Church receiving tithes from it's congregation, should be required to publish in detail how "every penny" is being used, and have regular audits to insure the publication is correct. If the Word says, bring all your tithes into the storehouse, well any "normal" storehouse is going to keep track of all it's comings and goings in detail, or it would not be in business very long. It's really sad, that some Christians will give to the poor on the streets asking for a hand out, then make comments on what there probably going to do with it, but never ask or hold the Church responsible for what they do with our hard earned cash. You know God also instructed us to support "every good work, is the Church the "only" good work? I sure hope not, if so were all in deep trouble. I personally give where I feel led by the Spirit to give, I feel when a person is "led by the Spirit" I think it means they understand and follow the principle of love and they give for the needs and betterment of others, they give all they can from their excess to help those in need.


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Bill

 2010/4/20 10:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I personally feel that every Church receiving tithes from it's congregation, should be required to publish in detail how "every penny" is being used, and have regular audits to insure the publication is correct.



I agree, but then no one would tithe when they see the pastors salary.

 2010/4/21 6:46
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

If I'm not mistaken, all 501(c)3 organizations are required by law to make detailed annual business reports that are available to all their members. So, as long as your church is such, those reports should be available to you in some manner.


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Jimmy H

 2010/4/21 7:01Profile





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