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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Now, I would like to finish what I started.

Seems to me all one has to do to answer the question "why are the young people leaving the church?" is simply to study history. Start with Genesis, go all the way through the OT and then start again with Acts and study church history. There is a cycle that has never changed: one of revival, then a falling away...

Church historians suggest that affluence has done more damage to the church then anything else. Wealth makes people feel comfortable, accomplished through their own efforts hence the need for God is minimized other then one needs him for fire insurance. (hmm, I'ld hate to diagram this sentence. :-o ) With affluence comes covetousness. Advertisers use it to peddle their wares, sowing discontent.

You know what? One can psychoanalyze this question and can come up with multiple answers and all may be correct. But is there not a more fundamental answer to this question, one that is basic, a one-size-fits-all? I think so.

Look at Genesis 3:1: the serpent asks Eve, "Yea, hath God said?" Does not all apostasy begin with this question?

And the next one is found in Genesis 4:2-6: here is the story of Cain and Abel. God had earlier instituted a blood sacrifice as the method to atone for one's sin. But Cain improvised, he decided what he thought was an improvement: he gave what he was good at: he was a good farmer who offered the fruit of his labors. But this was not acceptable to God: it was not what he demanded: blood.

Now you have two fundamental issues that dog man, even today: "Yea, hath God said?" (questioning his Word); and "Improvising of God's word" to make it more compatible with personal desires.

The devil never did have to change his methods because man has not changed, refuses to learn and is as stupid as ever.

Seems to me Mr. Ham could have saved himself a ton of money and just checked Bible and church history and he would have had his answer.

I also think Krispy is right...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/6/17 9:08Profile
thomasm
Member



Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re: Why are Young People Leaving the Church?

Rom 1:16niv ...because it is the power of God for salvation...
Col 2 6-23 There is a lot of form, without power in the church today, being full of the knowlegde of scripture, and human understanding of scripture, but denying the power of God.

The youth of every generation is looking for the real deal, we can't win them with words only, they need a demonstration of the POWER OF GOD.

When I experienced the power of God, through the cross of Jesus, the theory of evolution went out with the rest of the trash in my life, I didn't need anyone to tell me it wasn't true. It was the power of God, by His Holy Spirit that showed me.
You could take me out and torture me, but the truth that was revealed to me can't be changed, even by the best debater, because it came by the Power of God.

We need to stick to the gospel," because it is the power of God unto salvation." Rom 1:16

The Holy spirit will do the rest.

Love in CHRIST tom


_________________
Tom weighill

 2009/6/17 9:26Profile









 Re:



To ginnyrose:

The problem lies within each of us, and is spread to our Children. If we have not disconnected our Television sets and radios and are not spending “quiet time”, each day with the Lord and His Word, and praying back His Word, and making it the major part of our existence, then our Children will be lukewarm while they are young. Once they get to Public Schools, they will be indoctrinated with the Homosexual agenda, starting in Kindergarten. In Junior High and then High School--- the Science classes will turn them over to Darwin & Evolution, and it is all over.[b] Our Christian schools are not much better. Calvary Chapel High School has found that over 80% of their students fall away from Christianity once they go on to College.[/b]

We are the problem, and our Children follow suit. If we are lukewarm Christians, Our Children will follow suit, and once the godless world gets their ear, they are easily gone. All of our media is recruiting them- from the Television (Discovery Channel, History Channel, Spongebob—all of them), the radio, the Movies, everything is marshaled against them by The Prince of the Power of the Air, Satan.

Satan is the deceiver of the Brethren, as well as the deceiver of the whole world. We must prepare our children for the battle that they will face. The only way to do that is with Jesus Christ and His Word, as well as our own living example of what it is to be His soldier.

[url=http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/58592127.html]Ca. Senate votes to to Force All California Public Schools to Promote Homosexuality, Transsexuality, Bisexuality Education[/url]

[url=http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=26127]Homosexual Agenda in the Public Schools[/url]

[url=http://www.robgagnon.net/HomosexualAgenda.htm]The Threat of the Homosexual Agenda[/url]

Sincerely,


Walter

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Now, I would like to finish what I started.

Seems to me all one has to do to answer the question "why are the young people leaving the church?" is simply to study history. Start with Genesis, go all the way through the OT and then start again with Acts and study church history. There is a cycle that has never changed: one of revival, then a falling away...

Church historians suggest that affluence has done more damage to the church then anything else. Wealth makes people feel comfortable, accomplished through their own efforts hence the need for God is minimized other then one needs him for fire insurance. (hmm, I'ld hate to diagram this sentence. :-o ) With affluence comes covetousness. Advertisers use it to peddle their wares, sowing discontent.

You know what? One can psychoanalyze this question and can come up with multiple answers and all may be correct. But is there not a more fundamental answer to this question, one that is basic, a one-size-fits-all? I think so.

Look at Genesis 3:1: the serpent asks Eve, "Yea, hath God said?" Does not all apostasy begin with this question?

And the next one is found in Genesis 4:2-6: here is the story of Cain and Abel. God had earlier instituted a blood sacrifice as the method to atone for one's sin. But Cain improvised, he decided what he thought was an improvement: he gave what he was good at: he was a good farmer who offered the fruit of his labors. But this was not acceptable to God: it was not what he demanded: blood.

Now you have two fundamental issues that dog man, even today: "Yea, hath God said?" (questioning his Word); and "Improvising of God's word" to make it more compatible with personal desires.

The devil never did have to change his methods because man has not changed, refuses to learn and is as stupid as ever.

Seems to me Mr. Ham could have saved himself a ton of money and just checked Bible and church history and he would have had his answer.

I also think Krispy is right...

ginnyrose



 2009/6/17 10:49
meltond
Member



Joined: 2003/10/2
Posts: 16
Oklahoma

 Re: Why are Young People Leaving the Church?

It is easy to lay blame upon school, sunday school, culture, etc. Yet, has any one considered a collapse in biblical parenting? The decline in the involvement of young people in the church could be in response to the decline in the home; especially in parenting. The Word of God gives parents a mandate; "Train up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it." Often times, we church our children, but do we as parents devoutly train them - bringing them up in the nuture and in the admonition of the Lord? We have fallen into the practices of Rome in many regards. One of which, we heap upon laity, the total responsibility of bibilical training. We demand our children's church leaders, Sunday school teachers, etc. to teach our children the Bible when it is the responsibility of the parent. When we speak of revival, I see a need of revival in the home; the family. A revival whereby the power of God visits and convicts Fathers for their sloth and coldness regarding biblical parenting and the responsibilities required of them by our Lord. I too am grieved about our young people falling under the power of this age, yet, as Fathers and Mothers take their place biblically, I believe our youth will be stedfast as well.


_________________
Derek Melton

 2009/6/17 12:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: the man of sin

Quote:
waltern wrote:
The problem lies [b]within each of us[/b], and is spread to our Children.
[b]If we[/b] have not disconnected our Television sets and radios
[b]We are the problem[/b], and our Children follow suit.
[b]We must prepare[/b] our children for the battle that they will face.


Walter,

When I read all the above, it seems to me that you've left no room for God because it all based upon "our" works and if we fail as parents, then all is lost for our children and they have no hope,which is simply not true. I'm not saying we shouldn't study the Bible with our children, turn off the TV; but I am saying that it doesn't end with us if we fail miserably.

Did you even read brothertom's post? He has done all he has known to do and when we have done all we know to do, we are "to stand still and see the salvation of the Lord" (Ex 14:13, 2Ch 20:17). THIS puts it back in God's corner and out of mine.

My sons are good boys, young men, are they living for the Lord? No, but I see God answer prayer for them and they have turned out well not because of ANYTHING I have done right in God's eyes or my own but in spite of me!

The following verse is true for my sons as well as other people's children, I know people use this verse for the end times but I'd like to put a twist on it as the Lord opened it up to me...

[i]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,[/i]
2 Thess 2.3

I believe this verse holds true for every troubling area in a Christian's life as well. Do Christians have trouble with lust, spending money, gambling and/or lying? I'm just offering to SI how I believe the Lord opened this up to me today, that "[i]Except there come a falling away THAT THE man of sin be revealed...[/i]"

Until THAT man be revealed in our life we won't be everything the Lord wants us to be OR for unbelievers, until THAT man be revealed we won't even come to the Lord.

When that man is revealed, the one who opposes and exalts himself above everything they've learned or know (all that is called God), because the man of sin sits in the temple of God, posing as God (paraphrased 2 Thess 2.4); when he is revealed as the poser he is in each individuals life, that is when God will begin a new work and a new thing in the person's life.

I'm doing what I know to do but it puts it squarely in God's lap and not mine. He's got bigger shoulders than I do (grin). Therefore, I do not let satan trip me up with shame and guilt NOR do I let other people put shame and guilt on me.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/6/17 12:49Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Quote:
meltond wrote:

I too am grieved about our young people falling under the power of this age, yet, as Fathers and Mothers take their place biblically, I believe our youth will be stedfast as well.


It is always when we turn away from the ways of the Lord that things begin to slide. Because many parents are not obeying the commandments of our Lord, their children also turn away. The Bible tells us again and again that this is how it will be.

To rely on the institution of "church" to raise up our children in the ways of the Lord is foolishness - for no matter what the "church" tries to teach them, it is in the nature of the child to follow their parents. Sadly, oftentimes the "church" chooses to resort to a dog and pony show to draw in the children - which only reinforces the worldly ways that it is supposedly trying to save them from. This is further exacerbated by the fact that most "churches" have become worldly in themselves.

The Awana program is an example of this. Children are given points and badges for memorizing scripture. These points are then accumulated and redeemed at the Awana store - where they buy things according to how many points they have "earned". There are two things that are happening here. One is that the children are being taught that their value is based upon their abilities as defined by the program. The other is that the knowledge of God is being rewarded by the things of the world.

No wonder the young people are leaving the church. This program is actually teaching them that the world is to be more valued than God, for the reward is necessarily greater than that which it is being given for.

 2009/6/17 13:31Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re: Why are Young People Leaving the Church?

once again another triffling scientific , DEAD, article .


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/17 21:34Profile









 Re:




To Lysa:

My post was not directed to you at all, it was directed at me, as well as all other Christian believers. It was merely a reflection of Scripture, and what we are commanded to do in God’s Word. All of us miss the mark, however when we do, we repent, and turn back to God, and continue our relationship and walk with Him:

[color=990000]We are told to:[/color]

[b]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.[/b]
(Proverbs 22:6)

[color=990000]Early Morning Rendezvous- Christ set the example:[/color]

(Mark 1:35)" 35. And in the morning,[b] rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed.[/b]

Luke 21:38 And all the people came[b] early in the morning[/b] to him in the temple, for to hear him.

John 8:2[b] And early in the morning[/b] he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

[b][color=990000]Getting up Early is the REQUISITE for Devotion:[/color][/b]

Psalms 5:3[b] My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.[/b]

Psalms 59:16 But I will sing of thy power; yea, [b]I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning:[/b] for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble.

Psalms 63:1 O God, thou art my God; [b]early will I seek thee:[/b] my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Psalms 88:13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and[b] in the morning [/b]shall my prayer prevent thee.

Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea,[b[ with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: [/b]for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

[color=990000]Executing God's commands:[/color]

Genesis 22:3 And Abraham rose up [b]early in the morning,[/b] and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

[color=990000]Discharge of daily duties:[/color]

Proverbs 31:15[b] She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.[/b]

[color=000000]Neglect of rising early, leads to poverty: [/color]

Proverbs 6:9-11[b] How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.[/b]

[b][color=000000]Rising Early is Practiced by the Wicked for:[/color][/b]

[b]Deceit: [/b]
Proverbs 27:14 He that blesseth his friend with a loud voice, rising early in the morning, it shall be counted a curse to him.

[b]Executing plans of evil. [/b]
Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.

[color=990000]Rising up early illustrates spiritual diligence. [/color]
Romans 13:11-12 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


[color=990000]Rising up Early is Exemplified by:[/color]

Abraham:
Genesis 19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD

Isaac:
Genesis 26:31 And they rose up betimes in the morning, and sware one to another: and Isaac sent them away, and they departed from him in peace.

Jacob:
Genesis 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

Joshua:
Joshua 3:1 And Joshua[b] rose early in the morning;[/b] and they removed from Shittim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over.

Gideon:
Judges 6:38 And it was so: for[b] he rose up early on the morrow, [/b]and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.

Samuel:
1 Samuel 15:12 And when Samuel[b] rose early[/b] to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.

David:
1 Samuel 17:20[b] And David rose up early in the morning,[/b] and left the sheep with a keeper, and took, and went, as Jesse had commanded him; and he came to the trench, as the host was going forth to the fight, and shouted for the battle.

Mary:
Mark 16:2 And[b] very early in the morning[/b] the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Apostles:
Acts 5:21 And when they heard that, they entered into the temple[b] early in the morning, and taught.[/b] But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

Lysa wrote:
Quote:
waltern wrote:
The problem lies [b]within each of us[/b], and is spread to our Children.
[b]If we[/b] have not disconnected our Television sets and radios
[b]We are the problem[/b], and our Children follow suit.
[b]We must prepare[/b] our children for the battle that they will face.


Walter,

When I read all the above, it seems to me that you've left no room for God because it all based upon "our" works and if we fail as parents, then all is lost for our children and they have no hope,which is simply not true. I'm not saying we shouldn't study the Bible with our children, turn off the TV; but I am saying that it doesn't end with us if we fail miserably.

Did you even read brothertom's post? He has done all he has known to do and when we have done all we know to do, we are "to stand still and see the salvation of the Lord" (Ex 14:13, 2Ch 20:17). THIS puts it back in God's corner and out of mine.

My sons are good boys, young men, are they living for the Lord? No, but I see God answer prayer for them and they have turned out well not because of ANYTHING I have done right in God's eyes or my own but in spite of me!

The following verse is true for my sons as well as other people's children, I know people use this verse for the end times but I'd like to put a twist on it as the Lord opened it up to me...

[i]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,[/i]
2 Thess 2.3

I believe this verse holds true for every troubling area in a Christian's life as well. Do Christians have trouble with lust, spending money, gambling and/or lying? I'm just offering to SI how I believe the Lord opened this up to me today, that "[i]Except there come a falling away THAT THE man of sin be revealed...[/i]"

Until THAT man be revealed in our life we won't be everything the Lord wants us to be OR for unbelievers, until THAT man be revealed we won't even come to the Lord.

When that man is revealed, the one who opposes and exalts himself above everything they've learned or know (all that is called God), because the man of sin sits in the temple of God, posing as God (paraphrased 2 Thess 2.4); when he is revealed as the poser he is in each individuals life, that is when God will begin a new work and a new thing in the person's life.

I'm doing what I know to do but it puts it squarely in God's lap and not mine. He's got bigger shoulders than I do (grin). Therefore, I do not let satan trip me up with shame and guilt NOR do I let other people put shame and guilt on me.


[b][color=000000]Rising[/color][/b]

 2009/6/18 1:31
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: missed it

You missed my whole point (which you usually do to) hammer home another long post with only your point.

God bless you Walter,


_________________
Lisa

 2009/6/18 8:12Profile









 Re:




To Lysa:

My long point of view is not my own. It comes from God's Word, and is taught in God's Word.

Also, you might be interested in what the Bible teaches about "falling away", and what it really means.

Apostasy, from the Greek word apostasia, meaning withdrawl or defection, is the defiant falling away from Christianity by someone who had been a converted member of the faith. Apostasy isn't a simple matter of sin by human weakness. It is a deliberate, unrepentant rejection of the Truth by someone who became fully aware of it.

Apostasy, or rather, never committing it, is a very serious matter. Once one knows better, he or she is expected to do better. Of all of the sins that there are to commit, apostasy is the unpardonable sin.

What does The Bible have to say about apostasy? What does Bible Prophecy say about it in the end-times?

[b]"In Later Times"[/b]

1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Timothy 4:1-5)

" This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.." (2 Timothy 3:1-5 )

[b]"Thorns and Thistles" [/b]

" 4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8. But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.." (Hebrews 6:4-8)


Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

Lysa wrote:
You missed my whole point (which you usually do to) hammer home another long post with only your point.

God bless you Walter,

 2009/6/18 9:23





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