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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Two mites from the rambling fool...

Have read through all the responses, and kudos for, in the words of Alan Redpath, [i]'practicing that all too rare, but precious Christian grace of disagreeing agreeably' [/i]

Think it would serve well that this article be revisited again:

[url=http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/040814/meet.shtml]http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/040814/meet.shtml[/url]

"[i] has chosen to meet at a Hooters restaurant every week for the past four years.

"We've seen a few of the waitresses become Christians. One of the former managers here became a Christian. So it's worked. The whole object, in reality, is that this is just to get inside the door," said Lamborn"[/i]

Isn't this pragmatism?

[i]"Despite Hooters' recent attempts to reposition itself as more family friendly, it has been a frequent subject of protests."[/i]

If this doesn't sound just a bit all to familiar...
Let's try it this way;
"Despite the churches' recent attempts to reposition itself as more 'sinner' friendly, it has been....."

"Come, let us all compromise together"...please.
If Hooters wants to be more family friendly they would have to shut down, change their name and their hiring practices.

Never in my life did I foresee myself agreeing with this particular group;

[i]"Social conservatives say the restaurant corrupts young children and attracts sexual predators, and feminists say it objectifies women.

"Everyone thinks it's hypocritical," said Victoria B. Pierce, president of the National Organization for Women's Cobb County chapter."

"Why would any church group go there?"[/i]"

Why indeed, though it has already been pretty well dealt with by all you fine people.

[i]"It's something Jesus would've done because he looked past what people may think and looked at what people's needs are."[/i]

Think there is something a bit mischievous in using this and the famous scripture of 'eating with tax collectors and sinners" as a basis for justification.

For one thing it was [b]JESUS[/b] let us not forget who was doing this, yeah I know His disciples were there, if fact what saith the scriptures?:

Mat 9:10 While he was having dinner at Matthew's home, many tax collectors and sinners arrived and began eating with Jesus and his disciples.

Mar 2:15 Later he was having dinner at Levi's house. Many tax collectors and sinners were also eating with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many who were following him.

Luk 15:1 Now all the tax collectors and sinners kept coming to listen to Jesus.

Trying to force these into this context here is a bit much.

Some might attempt to get around this by saying, "well, Jesus lives inside of me, so it's just like He's there anyway"

No it's not. You and I aren't anywhere close to being that filled with the Spirit, not in these skin suits we aren't nor will we ever be. Besides if my reading of these verses are correct is this not 'them' coming to Him? Probably a small point really, if we stop and think about it, anywhere Jesus went he was dealing with sinners including the Pharisees.
"If you being evil..."

Though I believe Ron had some excellent points and a markedly different point of view, especially on the fact of just [b]Who's[/b] earth it is we are milling about, I also recall him stating that he wasn't talking about setting up a "Hooters Christian Fellowship" and also believe his emphasis was on preaching if invited to do so. In this case they have been set up here for 4 years.

I don't know who it is we really think we are kidding here.

For one thing this is a 'Christian Youth Group'? Not that it makes a huge difference but aren't we talking about ragging hormones to begin with? Greg's pointed remark about setting up shop "IN hell' vs. "next to" is noteworthy.

Chanin, thank you sister, you summed it up nicely with:

"I am sure there are men out there who do not struggle at all with lust :roll: ,so if they feel that they can hold all of their thoughts in captivity to Christ and keep their eyes to themselves- then be my guest."

:roll: Indeed!

Something that I would also have to wonder about is what do the wives and girlfriends think of all this?

I am with Robert on this one and with the others who pointed out the deception of all this.


Strange sense of irony here:

[i]"The topic this night is consistent relationships, and Lamborn begins by asking the college-age group, "How does inconsistency negatively affect your relationships with others?"

As responses sprinkle in, a blonde in a tight white tank top and orange hot pants quietly scoots up to the table. She joins the discussion for a few minutes then has to scurry back to her boisterous customers inside."[/i]

How inconsistent can you get?
Next weeks topic: "How to flee youthful lusts while sitting still at Hooters"...

Should we pray for them? Of course, question though...should I pray for their eye's to be opened or closed? (not trying to be sarcastic)
If anything maybe just for conviction, for everybody...


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Mike Balog

 2004/8/29 9:35Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Probably should have done this right from the get go but, has anyone checked out their site?

[url=http://www.singlefocusatlanta.org/]http://www.singlefocusatlanta.org/[/url]

"[u]Our Mission[/u]

To bring life into focus by offering affirmation, encouragement and hope to people in transition.

Affirm the value of people and their contribution to others

Encourage people needing support by believing in them

Offer hope to people struggling

Bring life into focus by creating environments where people can explore who they are spiritually, intellectually, socially and relationally



[u]Our Vision[/u]

Single Focus Atlanta, Inc. is an organization dedicated to reaching people in life transition. We do this by providing environments where people can explore new perspectives in their beliefs, relationships, spirituality and life issues. We meet one on one or in groups in places where people circulate (i.e. restaurants, homes, bars, campuses, apartment complexes, etc.) We believe people are of value as modeled by the life and examples of people like Jesus Christ. Effectiveness occurs when we, as searching people, together discover ways to live a life of Focus and Hope and thereby reach our given potential.



[u]Our Philosophy[/u]

When people meet in groups or one on one...

No one is treated as being right or wrong

No one will be judged for what they do or say

All can participate as they are

Everyone will be treated with Dignity, Honor and Respect



[u]Our Goals[/u]

1. Create environments conducive to self-discovery and a relationship with God

2. Create materials and resources to assist people in growth with God, self and others

3. Promote and educate the church in areas of single persons in transition in relationships, occupations, values, beliefs and in relationship with God

4. Network information for single persons in transition

5. Leadership training

6. Events designed to educate, inform and further develop people in their understanding of God, others and ways outreach like SFA impact people"

Can't shake the reverberations of:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282]Ten Shekels and a Shirt[/url] Paris Reidhead


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Mike Balog

 2004/8/29 10:05Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: Hooters

Mike,

thank you for your thoughts! I actually missed the part where they have been doing this for 4 years. :-(

I had been to their site also and had seen their goals and philosophy. I didn't post them though because I didn't want to debate over these issues- but to me- they are vey valid statements that show that they are approaching this through humanism. God forbid we tell someone that what they are doing is "wrong" and goes against God's standards. "i'm ok, you're ok". :-?

Back a few years ago when I had one foot in the world and one foot in the church, I know I needed someone to come along and say "you know, what you're doing here does not really line up with the word of God." I may or may not have listened at the time, but looking back, I would know they really cared about me and loved me as God does. I am not going to be afraid to take this approach with people because they need to hear it. Only my own "selfishness" (caring about "self") would keep me from speaking the truth in love.


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Chanin

 2004/8/29 10:36Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Back a few years ago when I had one foot in the world and one foot in the church, I know I needed someone to come along and say "you know, what you're doing here does not really line up with the word of God." I may or may not have listened at the time, but looking back, I would know they really cared about me and loved me as God does. I am not going to be afraid to take this approach with people because they need to hear it. Only my own "selfishness" (caring about "self") would keep me from speaking the truth in love.



This is so well expressed Chanin, thank you.

And yes that is where I was going with the allusion to Ten Shekels.

Boy, if we had seen this right off the bat, I wonder how different this discussion might have been? Still it is good discussion, wish I could recall more of a series from John MacArthur on this whole subject of 'being in the world but not of it'. Suffice it to say, I don't think a 'bible study' of this sort in this place with this premise is what anybody had in mind back a few thousand years ago.

[i]Religion today is not transforming people; rather it is being transformed by the people.

It is not raising the moral level of society; it is descending to society's own level, and congratulating itself that it has scored a victory because society is smilingly accepting its surrender.[/i]

... A. W. Tozer


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Mike Balog

 2004/8/29 10:48Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
To bring life into focus by offering affirmation, encouragement and hope to people in transition.

Affirm the value of people and their contribution to others

Encourage people needing support by believing in them

Offer hope to people struggling

Bring life into focus by creating environments where people can explore who they are spiritually, intellectually, socially and relationally



This sounds very much like what comes out of the world of psychology today. They promote the idea of self-love, self-esteem and self-worth as being the driving force in all mankind's existence. Our fallen nature does focus on self, but that is not what we should be striving for. We should crucify self daily, but this is a concept is not found on their web site.

Quote:
When people meet in groups or one on one...

No one is treated as being right or wrong

No one will be judged for what they do or say

All can participate as they are

Everyone will be treated with Dignity, Honor and Respect


According to these folks nobody should be considered right or wrong or judged for what they say or do! This is another principle of psychology, we are all victims, and victims shouldn't be judged. If you don't think you are a victim it is because you are unaware of it. But the truth is that what we are is sinful and in need of the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

According to the world of psychology our great need is self-esteem, according to the Bible our great need is to know God personally. Having high self-esteem will not lead a person to God. Which is more important, being born again or thinking well of yourself? Until a person comes to the realization that he is a sinner and condemned to death by a just and Holy God (which by the way is a killer to self-esteem) he will never be ready to come in humble repentance to God.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/8/29 16:18Profile
Bub
Member



Joined: 2004/3/29
Posts: 18
San Diego, CA

 Re:

Brother Mike,

Thank you for the url for this groups website. It only affirms what I knew the Spirit of God was saying to me. For to me, if the heart of my prayer toward sin is, "Father, Lead us not into temptation." and then in the next sentence believe that the Spirit of God is calling me to conduct a bible study at Hooters..... deadly stuff.

This indeed is an humanistic gospel that is being preached based on their philosophy of ministry. I only hope that weaker brothers who don't have access to such fellowship as takes place on this site, should they come across this article, will not be stumbled into thinking this is something from God.


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Alan Mendoza

 2004/8/29 23:45Profile
PastorEdP
Member



Joined: 2004/8/28
Posts: 58
Clinch Mountain, Virginia

 Re:

The immediate problem with humanism is that it looks good to the rest of the world. And there is nothing satan loves more than to have his people look attractive and god-like. Only a person familiar with Scripture and the Good News would be able to discern the tragic error in this group's message. We're going to see even more of this and that is why it is so crucial to spread God's message of salvation as much as we can. We are living in the last days, brothers and sisters. There is no doubt of that. Let not one person pass by us that could be saved from the lake of fire.

In Christ,

Ed


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Ed Price

 2004/8/30 8:42Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
We're going to see even more of this and that is why it is so crucial to spread God's message of salvation as much as we can. We are living in the last days, brothers and sisters. There is no doubt of that. Let not one person pass by us that could be saved from the lake of fire



I agree heartily that we will see more of this. The enemy has a strategy of mixing everything worldly he possibly can with Christianity. Like a mother mixing medicine for her children with a sweet tasting additive- so Christianity is being mixed with all manor of unholy things in order to get people to 'swallow' it.

We have to remember that the power is in the holiness. That is what will be denied in these last days. There is a 'form' of godliness- but it is a mixture. This will continue on as both doctrine and holiness is compromised until we wake up one day and the primary religion of the nation will be UNIVERSALISM. I'm saved- your saved, were all saved. Live like you want- believe what you want- it matters not- because the believe will be- everyones saved.

I heard a minister say once that we have surrendered so much ground to the devil that we have reached a strategic inflexion point. We are backed up against a precipice with two options: surrender or CHARGE! I believe the message in this hour is raise the standard we marching to war. We can't surrender another inch to the devil!

We can't allow our teenage kids to believe that they can take fire into their bosom and not be burned. That they can flirt with sin and not be effected. The modern church growth movement would applaud any effort to add one more name to the church role- but how many names are we adding to the Lambs Book of Life?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/8/30 9:11Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
The immediate problem with humanism is that it looks good to the rest of the world. And there is nothing satan loves more than to have his people look attractive and god-like. Only a person familiar with Scripture and the Good News would be able to discern the tragic error in this group's message.


Amen brother Ed! There are many Christian groups and movements that are being accepted by the world because their message comprimises the true gospel of Christ and is not a reproach to the world. Christ said of the church that they persecuted [b]me[/b] and therefore they will persecute [b]you[/b].


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/8/30 11:50Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: hooters

I don't know if many of you have listened to "Counterfit Spirituality" by Wilkerson (it's one of my favs)- but it addresses this pretty clearly.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/8/30 12:03Profile





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